Well, N.drew, I would expect a good Christian to be honest about their endeavor to recieve entrance into heaven. If someone gives an honest answer it's pretty obvious that it IS honest. But usually if someone is living in denial it is not likley that they would own up to certain things, it IS likely that they would just deny it so that they win the argument.
TheUbermensch
JoinedPosts by TheUbermensch
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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31
Just another Music thread . . . Songs about Freedom
by sizemik inalmost everytime i come here i go away with something valuable.. but just occasionally i feel like i've left something behind .
.. ahh well .
i've still got my mind.. that's the worst part really.
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TheUbermensch
What about Richie Havens' "Freedom"? The Woodstock performance is absolutely EXCELLENT.
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48
How many ex-JW's are musicians on here?
by NoRegrets injust wondering how many of us on here are musicians, what we play, and if we had witness bands and/or performed.
i have had quite a few funny moments of being in bands that wanted to be cool, but always had to nerf the edginess of any songs we played and watch the noise!
i played with different elders who loved to rock out, but when they played at a congregation party didn't even want to use overdrive of any kind!
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TheUbermensch
I play drums, guitar, and bass, and a teeny bit of piano. I started out on bass when I was around 10 after I had given up guitar after attempting to learn a G chord. ahahaha. Then I went back to guitar. Drums were relatively easy to learn how to play after the struggle with guitar and bass. I took piano lessons for about half a year but had to quit because my grandparents went back and forth between Arizona and California, so I couldn't get a ride to piano lessons. But I'm thinking about returning to piano and purchasing a console upright, maybe even a baby grand. I'm one of those people that lamely get inspired by things, so I recently watched The Pianist, and have always wanted to be able to play Chopin, or Debussy. I also really dig jazz drums so I was thinking about taking jazz drum lessons since I just play rock/grunge/punk (relatively easy types) drums. With guitar I enjoy playing stuff like Django Reinhardt, Charlie Byrd, Stray Cats, Nirvana, Beatles, basically jazz, rockabilly/psychobilly, oldies, grunge, punk, and noise rock (i.e. Sonic Youth).
I do think that music liberates the mind, especially in composition or writing lyrics, even poetry. I can imagine when starting to compose a piano concerto one has infinite options concerning the piano, and even more options with the strings/horns that would accompany it. Being that you have this blank canvas, this infinite choice, it instills an idea of absolute freedom.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
You are right. If only they would listen, then they could write a earth shaking book, not they, but he or she, and it would become one of the millions of books, and how would we, I mean I, know which one it is that would cause me to volunteer in the right place, close to home, because I don't have much money for something else. But, to be fair, Mr. Jeff sir, (can I call you that?), thank you, you need not answer, unless it is (not me is) an irritation, you were not the one who said that genius of a plan, so I shouldn't say, but might sift through all the post, but it being my Sabbath, I probably shouldn't, but I don't want to anyway.
What does this even mean?
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
still thinking, the only value one can find in Mein Kampf is that it was written by one of the most infamous human beings in history. The political ideals (and life story) are horribly ridiculous (basically saying that someone will always be better than someone else, and those people should rule). I definitely suggest reading it, that way you can just say that you have.
Ah yes N.drew. Speaking like a true Christian.
"Fear makes us the instruments of Power. When we are afraid, we obey."
No, fear of hell does not deter one from doing evil, fear deters one from not believing in God.
I don't understand this at all. You leave one extremity (JW's) to join another (whatever Christian fundamentalist group you belong to). It's such a waste. You had might as well stayed a Jehovah's Witness, there isn't any difference, you are just as full of delusion as you were before.
Nietzsche had an excellent idea. The reason that human beings turn to the other world (heaven, hell, any theistic belief) is because of an extreme dissatisfaction with life, and in this other world the people who made them unhappy are punished. The only real goal of a human being is "Ubermensch" or superman or overman. The Ubermensch is someone who doesn't need the other world, he has faced reality in the natural world. He has reached the ultimate nihilism (the only realistic view of life in Nietzsche's opinion) and found that the meaning in life is not absent without an outside extremity (i.e. God, Allah, the Buddha) but the value of life is instilled by him, not another outside force, he has the power of his life, no one else.
Personally that's a much more logical view than someone in the sky who made a bunch of humans write a book chronicling his horrible failures in the creation of everything, and the wars he made them wage. Why does no one ever ask how/why Satan beat God in the book of Genesis? How did he get into the garden? Doesn't make any sense.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
please avoid:
1.Insulting, threatening, or provoking language.
I'm sorry, but being told on a forum to shut up is insulting. Everyone is having a perfectly normal discussion/debate/argument, and then YOU have to make it personal.
Who said I was bent out of shape? How deluded can you possibly be?
Hitler said the same thing about the Jews in his original, first, unedited version of Mein Kampf. " Die Juden sind unser Spielzeug"
"The Jews are our toys."
I'm sure you'll be proud that you share the same ideals concerning people who oppose you as Adolf Hitler.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
No, because I am not speaking, I am typing. However I am reading what I wrote, and I believe what you mean is something along the lines of relative value. You find value in things much more differently than I do, that is because I am an evolutionary naturilist and you are a theistic cognitivist. I find joy in the natural world, what I can see before my eyes, and what I can feel with my hands. You find joy in the world of metaphysics and the paranormal. Supernatural occurrences are not real to me. Thus, someone wasting time on strong beliefs considering the supernatural is absolutely diabolic, atrocious, and horrific. Not because the action is diabolic, etc. but simply because of the mass amount of effects that occur because of the horrible causation which is organized religion.
I find it quite funny that you are asking me if I hear myself when more than 50% of your posts on this thread (I'd say about 80 or 90%) were so far beyond incomprehensible that I stopped reading after the first sentence.
Anyways, your convoluted ideas written horribly (grammarwise) have begun to bore me. Please stop flogging a dead horse and come with something pertinent to the subject, I am tired of wasting my time on semantics and hurt feelings.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
And N.Drew, again, you completely misconstrue what I was originally speaking of.
This is extremely frustrating, I just thought I'd let you know.
My scenario was a generalization, one that is quite accurate. There ARE cases where it isn't truth, however, after attending thousands of Roman Catholic masses as a small child and hundreds of meetings at Kingdom Hall's as a small child and teenager I've witnessed the time spent on religion. You can NOT possibly deny that somewhere, in the history of the world, there was someone with a greater potential than they allowed themselves because of religion, and they could have helped the world some way. The amount of humans who HAVE spent time on religion to probability of a life changing invention or finding make it logically probable (and almost logical truth) that multiple human beings dedicated their life to their sky daddy rather than science, medicine, the arts, or philosophy.
Obviously humans face obstacles outside of religious time, but honestly, thats besides the point.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
Many apologies, I didn't notice that symbol.
Are you accusing my of misogyny or chauvinism simply because the nonbelievers on this thread coincidentally happen to be all male? Interesting (to me).
No evidence is required to prove taking something out of context. It's a logical statement that the breaking down of something takes away from the overall whole.
For instance a piece of apple is not AN apple.
By saying that you break down a post for your own interests I do not always mean negative interests. It may make it easier, but personally, I would prefer you respond to the whole rather than pick and choose what to respond to and what not to.
And a quick question (sorry if you've posted it somewhere else or on this thread and I haven't noticed it) do believe in the New Testament AND the Old Testament? Or no or... ?
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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TheUbermensch
We believe that the world would be a better place when rid of spiritual imagination because of a simple, logical, idea.
Most religions contain another life, and that is the core of it's belief system. This takes away from the value of THIS life, a life that is the only life we have (the conclusion of every atheist on Earth).
Imagine every human being that has ever lived. Imagine the percentage of those human beings who were at one time or another part of a religion. Imagine the hours of just ONE person's life that they put into worship, prayer, and study.
Let's take the average Roman Catholic. A Roman Catholic usually attends church every Sunday, and prays before every meal, and sometimes before bed. Let's just take the mass on every Sunday. A Sunday mass is one hour. Multiply that hour by 52 weeks in the year. Let's say this Roman Catholic lives to a pretty normal age, let's say 80. Multiply the 52 hours per every week by 80. Divide that answer (4160 hours) by 24 and you will end up with about 173. 173 days (almost half a year) of someone's life has been utilized by the belief in a dogmatic religion. This excludes prayer and personal worship, as well as study. Now imagine this Catholic that has certain choices for what he can do in life, and one of them is to become a professor of philosophy. One who can publish his own work, one whom can possibly change the world, and yet he doesn't because it might question their faith (this actually happened to my grandmother, she took zero philosophy courses throught her college career for the same reason). What would've happened if he HAD become a philosophy professor, or if he had published philosophical works? We won't ever know. And this is just ONE person.
Think of the millions of priests, bishops, popes, deacons, and believers (billions really). Think of all the years, the hundreds of thousands of years spent on their religion. And then imagine that one day, we find one piece of evidence that disproves God. All of that wasted time that could've been spent on finding cures for horrid diseases (allowed by your deity), improving the contemporary technology of their time, but no, they went to church, studied their holy book, and prayed to their select man in the clouds.
The world WOULD be a better place then it is now. It is so logically probable that that statement is known to be fact in the world of science.
You act as if you've never actually thought about this. One who is so rigid in their beliefs that it is so absolute, that when questioned about it, interviewed, argued with, one resorts to acts of sarcasm and condescension, and THEN talks about how insulting a post was that was backed up by logical probabilities and scientific/historical fact? Ridiculous.