PaddyTheBaddy

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Posts by PaddyTheBaddy

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  31

  Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

  i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

  since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  In chapter one of Victor Stenger's book called GOD: The Failed Hypothesis: How Science Shows that God Does Not Exist, the very first argument he uses is under the heading of "Lack of Evidence". In that section he says the following.
  "... as we saw in the preface, the overwhelming majority of prominent American scientists has concluded that God does not exist. If God exists, where is he? Philosopher Theodore Drange has termed this the lack-of-evidence-argument, .... Stenger later says that "... the very existence existence of nonbelievers in the world who have not resisted such belief [in God] is evidence against his existence. The problem of divine hiddenness is one that has taxed the abilities of theologians over the years--almost as much as the problem of evil ...."

  Just because someone is a non believer at one point in time doesn't mean he or she is destined to an eternity of disbelief. Tom didn't believe until he got some blood on his hands. Maybe there is a time and a place for non resistant unbelievers to get what the are looking for.

  It doesn't surprise me that most scientists don't believe in the existence of God especially if this is primarily due to a lack of scientific evidence proving his existence. Science looks to understand the workings of the material world and everything in it. It can't make any definitive statements about anything non material which may or may not exist, for the simple reason that it doesn't have access to anything outside of the material world.

  If the material world has always existed, (that means it's eternal in the past) in one form or another, that solves the problem and science potentially will be able to explain everything. If however, matter hasn't existed eternally and came into existence, then it potentially came from a non material source. Matter can't bring matter into existence if it doesn't exist. This doesn't get you to God but it does get you to a non material reality.

  So God isn't the explanation for why the apple fell from the tree, science can tell you that. God is the potential explanation for why the apple and tree exist in the first place.
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  16

  Even if God exists…….

  by snare&racket in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’m an atheist.. let’s assume i am wrong, i am willing to be.. let’s give people a god, let’s even make him the god of the bible…... does he deserve to be worshipped and obeyed?

  if so, why does his abhorrent actions not morally make you question allegiance to him?.

  does his authority alone allow him to murder and drown and order war, to throw people into a lake of fire?.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  Does he deserve to be worshipped and obeyed?

  If so why?

  If so, why does his abhorrent actions not morally make you question allegiance to him?

  Does his authority alone allow him to murder and drown and order war, to throw people into a lake of fire?

  If God exist and morality is grounded in him, then the sense of morality I possess comes from him. My ability to judge his actions as abhorrent stem from this God given gauge. So either there is something wrong with my sense of justice or there is more to the account than I am aware off.

  If God doesn't exist, then all we are are lumps of well organized clay telling other lumps of clay how they ought to behave. In this version of reality our sense of right and wrong is grounded in the clay. The concept of right and wrong held by the mightiest lumps of clay tends be the right one. In a materialists world, might is right.

  The only hope we have of being able to truely state that abhorrent actions are objectively wrong, is if there is a source of morality beyond the mere attributes of matter.

  So although we don't understand all of his actions and as a consequence feel uninclined to worship him, he does provide hope of ultimate justice being accessible to all. This can only be achomplished in an afterlife. It may even make him more likable in the end.

  Someone once said "Everything will be ok in the end, and if it's not ok, it's not the end."
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  56

  If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

  moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

  but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  The claim that God doesn't communicate with humans is based on the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever.

  What do we mean by "communicate"?

  Notsure what sort of evidence would you accept?

  Great question. I do not mean to be inflammatory, but are we talking some sort of two witness rule or three witness rule?

  https://youtu.be/CI41MtiNsls
  
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  31

  Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

  i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

  since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  But I do care if other people believe a personal god (or other spirit) exists, for such beliefs hinder the progress of human society.

  Which is why if you had 30 minutes to convince this guy not to fly a plan into a building, I doubt you would use the argument from divine hiddenness to persuade him.

  
  

  
  
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  56

  If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

  moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

  but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  Anthony Flew has an interesting conversion account. It was the discovery of DNA's double helix which led him to believe in an intelligence behind the creation of life. The creator communicated to him through his creation.

  Anthony Flew
  

  His name may not be familiar, but Flew was one of the most significant atheist thinkers of the pre-Dawkins era. He was a prominent critic of religion, suggesting that atheism should be the default position until evidence for God could be produced; that the burden of proof should be on the faiths, not on the faithless. He carried these beliefs late into life, even signing 2003's Third Humanist Manifesto. However, just a year later, he announced that he had dramatically changed his philosophical allegiance.

  Flew hadn't converted to the Christian faith, but he had embraced deism – the belief in God. So convinced was he, that in 2007 he published his final book, There is a God: How the world's most notorious atheist changed his mind. It has been discredited by atheists ever since who claim that Flew's change of position was due to his declining mental health, and that the book was mainly the work of his co-writer. However, before his death in 2010, Flew lucidly and specifically addressed this in one of his final articles, itself a rebuttal of Dawkin's references to him in The God Delusion.

  https://www.christiantoday.com/article/five-atheists-who-lost-faith-in-atheism/61784.htm
  
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  56

  If God exists, what would be a good reason why he never communicates or helps his creation by intervention?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you have probably heard all kinds of excuses why god doesn’t communicates with his creation or why he doesn’t intervene.. some examples.. no one can see god because he is a spirit.. but we can hear god---yet he chooses not to talk to humanity.. god only communicates with certain people.

  moses, samuel, abraham, etc.

  but there are many people today who also claim that god spoke to them yet we ignore them but believe god spoke to people who lived thousands of years ago and we can’t really verify if that was so.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  Why doesn't god convince a sceptic for once? Why does he only manifest himself to "true believers"? The clue is in the "believers" part.

  To be fair he did have a chat with Paul on his way to Damascus.
  
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  31

  Is the FACT that no God/god ever communicates with humans evidence that no God/god exists?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is the fact that no god/god ever communicates with us evidence that no god/god exists?

  i think it is very strong evidence that no personal god/god exits, especially a benevolent god who wants humans to know him him/her/it, to obey him/her/it, and/or to love him/her/it.

  since no god/god communicates to us (including those who sincerely want communication with the/a god/god), wouldn't it be sensible for those who pray to what they believe is the/a god/god to cease all efforts to communicate to a god/god?

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  I think that Schellenberg's idea of the meaning the word "God" with a capital "G" is one which has the core characteristics of what Christian theologians consider the Christian God to have. Philosophers in their writings about whether or not God exists seem to be fixated on that kind God, and give very little consideration to the idea of a God who is not all-knowing or or not all-powerful or one who is evil. They also seem to give no consideration to the idea that polytheistic types of gods might exist.

  I agree that this is how most philosophers depict God. The reasons for which are independent of anything the bible has to say about God. The bible just happens to describe God in similar terms.
  

  Still all you can claim is because you haven't been personally convinced of God's love for mankind, despite the christian claim that he died for mankind, you don't believe he exists. It is not that there isn't any evidence, it is more that the evidence people use doesn't convince you.

  These guys below would argue that the defeat and withdrawal, of the mightiest military force on planet earth, from their holy land, is evidence of God communicating his support for their Jihad.

  
  

  If God is all powerful, all knowing and all evil it would solve your problem of why he seems to be a crummy communicator and thankfully so. However, It would leave you with a different set of problems, which is why many philosophers don't characterise God as evil, as you pointed out.
  
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  19

  Does christianity induce insanity?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is happening in western australian indigenous communities .... quote: "some american-based preachers are distributing emails and videos warning that covid-19 vaccines are evil and the work of satan, and the notion has infected some christian communities in the west australian outback.. veteran aboriginal health worker kathy watson said people spreading false information about the covid-19 vaccination and its links to the devil were "mad".".

  see more at: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/anti-vacc-church-speaks-out-against-misinformation/100430208.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  Why do people ignore politics? It has been estimated that more people died because of Communism and Fascism than because of religious wars

  This is just an example of evil people doing evil things

  
  

  But if you want a good man to do something evil, it helps to use some sort of religious persuasion.

  
  
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  19

  Does christianity induce insanity?

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is happening in western australian indigenous communities .... quote: "some american-based preachers are distributing emails and videos warning that covid-19 vaccines are evil and the work of satan, and the notion has infected some christian communities in the west australian outback.. veteran aboriginal health worker kathy watson said people spreading false information about the covid-19 vaccination and its links to the devil were "mad".".

  see more at: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/anti-vacc-church-speaks-out-against-misinformation/100430208.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”
  ― Steven Weinberg
  
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  11

  An old friend was all nice until she found out I was DF'd!!!

  by Lynnie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well this is almost funny to me at this point.

  i've been out since i was 19 and i'm now 65. i have uber jw cousins that of course now shun me big time.

  funny how when my uber jw started declining in health all of a sudden they "needed" me and i had to help with her care blah blah after being shunned for years.. my mom passed away a couple of years ago and i sent out the death/memorial announcements to her friends far and near.

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  PaddyTheBaddy

  • I wish karma existed. Sadly, I see no evidence of it.

    Cheer up punkofnice. Karma is alive and well.