Posts by Doubter

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Just a sec, Andy:

My entire time in this thread was scrutinizing the claims of RV, at least, that was the focus of most of my questions:

RV has been accepting claims, mentioned in the paper you linked, showing how barely 2 percent have reported them (I assume to the police).

If we are going to hold jws to the standard of reporting them, RV are to be held to the same standard, especially seeing how they are paying legal counsel who should advise them to do so.

If we are going to define not reporting allegations to police as “covering up” abuse, then it’s logically consistent to say RV is “covering up” false claims if they aren’t immediately letting qualified persons deal with them.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

I’ve said my piece. We’ll just wait and see how this whole thing turns out.

G’day!

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Look, all jws know that RV (and those here) wants the government to presume guilt, kick down doors, and pry files from our cold, dead hands.

Also, the local branch knows this.

Jws are excellent litigators when their rights are violated.

So as long as things are done within the framework of law, it’s all good.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Sure sanch, but...

The allegations will have to be legitimate first before you can even ask those questions. You can’t properly handle something that either didn’t happen, or what you’re not responsible for.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

John,

“Investigations” are done in a detective-like fashion. These questions (and many others) are asked in true investigations. Questions are a necessary part of investigations. Investigators want, or at least should want, the truth. The facts change their opinions, their opinions don’t change the facts.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Sanchy-

What makes no difference? Is it...

Who the abuser was?

Where the abuse happened?

When it took place?

If that’s what you mean, then why does it not make a difference?

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Of course, my 60 year old point was an extreme and an obvious hypothetical, obviously.

Still, organizational structure, who the abuser is/was (a Witness or not) where the abuse happened, etc, goes a long way in proving who is responsible for what, and who ISNT responsible for what.

Anyone who doesn’t think those details matter doesn’t care about fairness or justice.

Victims deserve to have the right person penalized. It doesn’t help anyone if innocent people take the fall for something they’re not guilty of. That’s injustice.

But the way to deliver justice is to ascertain those details.

If people are so-called “afraid” to speak up, then that’s RV’s problem. They have insufficient evidence, then.

It’s on them to provide this evidence. That’s how the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” works.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Speculative language such as “potentially” and “might have been” is exactly why the age of the victims, if the abuser was a witness, and where it happened, matters.

If the abuser was a non-witness family member and it happened in the abuser’s home, then how can the organization be held liable at all? They can’t.

If the victim is 60 years old and is recounting abuse from his teenage years, then how can any government scrutinize any group based on standards that were non existent at the time? Historical context matters when you are accusing folks of breaking laws that didn’t exist.

These are the fruits of critical analysis — questions that need to be considered and answered.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

Since the burden of proof is on them, if they have not produced any children, and are apparently hanging their hats on 30 year old cases, then they have not met their burden. It is not the responsibility nor obligation of the organization to produce anything to dispel unproven claims.

This is even more a problem for them if the abusers weren’t even jws, or if the abuse took place in their homes. We know the vast majority of child abuse is perpetrated by relatives, and trusted friends and family, and in the home.

Since jws have literally no programs that inherently put children under the care of the organization, or under the care of non-related adults, the opportunity to abuse while involved in an organization-sponsored activity is slim to none. During the meetings/assemblies/conventions, families sit together.

This is why no one in the 140 year history of jws have been able to legitimately prosecute in court, the organization as an organization, for their alleged coverups.

Its simply not set up in anyway that separates children from parents.

These truths will come to light if an investigation is honest, and transparent.

85

Newspaper reports: Dutch government will initiate inquiry into child abuse within JW community

by Anders Andersen in

today a dutch newspaper published an in-depth follow-up item on jw abuse issues.. the most interesting part of the article is this:.

the politicians also let themselves be heard.

a month ago the house of representatives voted unanimously in favor of a motion to enforce an independent inquiry into abuse within the jehovah's witnesses, as the organization refuses to initiate it.

Doubter

You do not cooperate with what you feel is an unjust investigation.

At any rate, when the alleged abuse happened, how old the claimants are, and who the perpetrators were/are is basically the linchpin to the validity of RV’s assertions.