Posts by OlderTom

45

Organized religion, no religion, agnostic

by cnn77 in

jw
friends

i am new here trying to figure my way around...... i would appreciate it if you could say which of these fits you..... 1. still a jw.

2. if you dont agree with the jw doctrines any longer do you belong to another religious organization now?

3. are still religious and have no religious affiliation.

OlderTom

You said...........read the Bible as I find many things in the Bible illogical and full of holes. Any sincere input in this is much appreciated by myself.

I have come o the conclusion that..... Much of what is written in the bible can be crosssreferenced with archeological EVIDENCE. Unlike the Mormons for instance. However I have trouble dealing with, and wonder how Christians deal with things such as.

The bible sais man was created 6000 years ago yet we find evidence of humanoids 1.5 Million years old.

Our aboriginals reccon they have been here in Oz for 40000 years and evidence dates them to 60000 years.

How did Noah get the Australian unique masupials into the Ark, feed them their special diets for a year and then put them back into their right place after the flood? UPS?

The bible sais Eve was made from one of Adams ribs yet men and women have the same number of ribs.

The watchtower sais we are living in the last days yet history teaches us that despite Hitler, Sadam, Milosowitch and the Indonesian dictators we live better and longer than we ever did in history.

In the past mankind was even more barbaric than they are today. Canabalism was not unique to the Melanesians. It was common practice to eat ons conquests. We were, and some still are, animals with a bigger brain.

Look at our aboriginals, when discovered they were living in the stone age even though European people were much further advanced. Did God make another one of his mistakes or did he forget about them?

The JDubs talk about living forever on earth yet the earth and everything on it is designed to live/excist only for a short time and nature reclaims it and returns it to the earth from which it came.

Living things turn back into compost.
Metals turn back into their oxides (rust)iron oxide.
Aluminium ->bauxide

So.... the bible is a book of fairy tales which have been grossly distorted over the years as you would expect when stories are handed down from generation to generation and not recorded immediately.

The bible was written for mostly uneducated peasants. Anyone with some level of intelligence would question much of what is written and test it if it really is so.

In my humble oppinion of cause. Anyone who can provide proof that everything in the bible is to be taken literally and absolutely true, I would welcome you ideas and see your proof. I have an idea it's going to be a long wait.

And don't give me that BS about "you gotta have faith"

Faith is believing something that is unbelievable.

And you will know the truth and the REAL truth will set you free.

OlderTom

45

Organized religion, no religion, agnostic

by cnn77 in

jw
friends

i am new here trying to figure my way around...... i would appreciate it if you could say which of these fits you..... 1. still a jw.

2. if you dont agree with the jw doctrines any longer do you belong to another religious organization now?

3. are still religious and have no religious affiliation.

OlderTom

You asked
I am new here trying to figure my way around.....
I would appreciate it if you could say which of these fits you....

1. Still a JW

<As far as I know I am still in good standing although I haven't had a visit from any brother, sister, elder in nearly 6 years. But then again we know this is Christian love a la JDub.

2. If you dont agree with the JW doctrines any longer do you belong to another religious organization now? If so which and why?

< No siree, that would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. I may just learn to stand on my own to feet for a while without having a crutch to lean on.

3. Are still religious and have no religious affiliation

< What is being religious? Poping into the local church on the weekend on your way home from the local pup where you tried to get into the pants of the barmaid after you gabled away your wages on the pokies after drinking 10 pints of beer ans smoking dope with your homo mates? No I am Waiting for a sign from God

4. Agnostic

What is it exactly?

5. Atheist

What is it exactly?

6. Other - if so what?

Don't know where I stand. Waiting for a sign from HIM if he is there and wants me he should make a move.

I would like him to let me know he excists and he does give a damn. It's been a long wait.

<And behold on the sixth day man created God in his own image.

<This makes sense to me and is the only way everyone is happy.

< As a jehovhs witless, going door to door I was told the al'mighty god was a man, a woman, black, white, a poof, a lesbo, an abbo, an abbo sheila, an abbo lesbian sheila, a homo, an indian, an asian, father, mother........... everyone imagines god to be like them.

So which is it? In whose image did he create us? was he white or black?

No folks, we created god to satify our own needs to worship something. Even people who do not believe in God worship, football heroes, movie stars, politicians, royalty, popstars, or the allmighty Dollar.

This is only my humble oppinion in the light of my present knowledge of the human race. New light may come to me and I may have to change my way of thinking in view of the "New Light"

Thanks guys

And you will know the truth and the REAL truth will set you free.

OlderTom

14

A Letter to the Elders

by AngelofMuZiC in

jw
friends

dear fellow board members,.

my mother is still a member of the org, and as i see it, fully intends on remaining a member.

she does not agree with everything the wts says, (the elders don't know that) and she has told me that she would never disown me for them, nor have they asked her to.

OlderTom

Just a suggestion.

I found your letter a little hard to read because it was just one BIG paragraph. Try to break it up a little into smaller paragraphs, that makes it easier to read.

Often someone will post something which sounds interesting but I just won't read it if it is just one BIG paragraph. It is particularely hard to read on a computer screen. Maybe I have a short attention span.

2

interview with God

by teejay in

jw
friends

i dreamed i had an interview with god.. ------------------------------------------------------------------.

"so you would like to interview me?

" god asked.. "if you have the time" i said.. god smiled.

OlderTom

That was very good. I simplify it even further by saying.....

People are so busy making a living that they don't have time for living.

4

Have you heard the story about the frog?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

the frog was boiled alive.

have you heard that illustration?

its quite popular amongst jw elders in australia as a teaching aid.. the story goes something like this: a frog is placed in a container of water.

OlderTom

Your story is familiar to me but in another context.

Your quote
The story goes something like this: A frog is placed in a container of water. Gradually the water is heated. The frog continues to swim around quite ‘happily’ not realising that his environment is gradually becoming hostile, until eventually the frog is boiled alive.

Our politicians rely on this principle too only they use it when working out how much they can tax us.

Hopefully we wake up and change our politicians before we too are boiled alive.

Unfortunately changing politicians isn't simple as they are pretty much all in it for themselves. perhaps we should declare "Open Season" on politicians once a year if they don't produce what they promise.

In Sweden they have simplified their tax system to the point where they only need to ask 3 questions.

Q1 How much did you earn last year?
Q2 How much is left over?
Q3 When can we come and get it?

3

Hey Farkelmeister - nim

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

snail mail came back marked 'return to sender'.

3 more days and i'm 'off air'.

unclebruce.

OlderTom

Did you get my e-mail about coming to visit in October?

13

I need your help!

by open_mind in

jw
friends

i have not shared my "story" with you yet.....i will give you the just of it right now, and go into further detail later.. i was baptized three months ago.

i started having doubts right away.

i am currently inactive and have no plans to return.

OlderTom

I have to agree with all of the above. He is already exposing you to the "loyalty to the Organisation test"

The organisation ALWAYS comes first there is no friendship if you have even the slightest doubt whatsoever.

Been there done that. They betrayed me too even the one true friend I thought I had. I confided in him and found myself before the judicial commitee the next night. I was told "be there or will proceed without you"

Found not guilty but Tried quartered and hung out to dry. Found NOT guilty but shunned never the less by our loving brothers and sisters.

They did us a favour, now we are free from the Watchtower slavery.

37

I getting bored with this Board

by OlderTom in

jw
friends

i'm just wondering if it is because i have changed and have gained my freedom from the watchtower enslavement or i just don't care anymore or is it that i have been exposed to too much of the same old complaints about the borg and all the false prophecies and the lies?.

i must admit i still get pleasure from reports of the watchtower walls starting to crumble al over the civilized world so i guess i'll continue to pop in from time to time.. as far as trying to de-program and rescue the poor unfortunate brainnumbed watchtower slaves, i think it's a total waste of time after all how do get through to people who prefer to believe in the lies when they know they are lies but they just don't want to see the real truth about the "truth(tm)".

i gues they don't want to see the real truth because it would force them to start thinking for them selves again and for some people that is just too much of a burden to bear.

OlderTom

Hi YoungerTom, good to see you getting involved in the discussion.

You said

When the time is right, at the appropriate moment, in the fullness of time, I'll ask a selected elder and see what reaction I get!!

Whom would you select? I don't trust any of them. Every single one I thought I could trust has betrayed me for the sake of the organisation.

I can tell you now what the reaction will be and I think you do too. I hope if you do ask the forbidden question you will be prepared for the reaction. Let me see if I can guess right.

1st you will be told you don't understand.

Then he will try and readjust your thinking.

Then he will continue to hammer at you with the same old Watchtower lingo and tried and proven Watchtower expression until you give in.

The bible will remain firmly in his bag but many quotes will come from Watchtower publications.

If you do not give in you will be labled as a troublemake, spiritually weak and shunned.

BTW are you aware of the many deliberate mistakes in the Watchtower bible?

Do you know why these deliberate mistakes have been made?

Do you know what they are trying to hide with these deliberate mistranslations?

The Interliniar is a fantastic book for finding some of these mistranslations because you can compare the left side with the right side. I showed this to a JDub relative of mine, Up popped the apostate filter and from there on it was like talking to a pot plant.

I am glad though that you are open and a thinker. Open to evaluating information. Willing to examine what you have learned which is a definate no no once you are babtised. If it really is THE TRUTH it will stand up to vigarous examination.

I think many find it to hard and time consuming to question the Watchtower teachings. They keep you so busy with all the meetings most people don't have the time and that is part of their plan. The mushroom principle.

Keep'em in the dark, feed'em on Bullsh!t and when they're, ripe tread on 'em

You are right when you say most of what we learned about the bible is good stuff. I am only worried about all those places where they go beyond what is written and I'm worried about all those man made rules.

Good heavens where does the bible list all the blood fractions which are allowed and which are not allowed? So where did that teaching come from? What does the bible say about those that teach another gospel?

That is only one tiny subject but should serve enough of a warning. Another major concern is the fact that they have replaced Jesus Christ, the only name by which you can be saved with the Governing body, ie. Themselves. Now to be saved you must perform works (sell Watchtower publications) and suck up to and serve the board of directors of the Watchtower multy billion dollar( your money not mine) publishing corporation.

Stick around YT I like making stimulating conversation with you.
You are an independent thinker, watch you rear.

37

I getting bored with this Board

by OlderTom in

jw
friends

i'm just wondering if it is because i have changed and have gained my freedom from the watchtower enslavement or i just don't care anymore or is it that i have been exposed to too much of the same old complaints about the borg and all the false prophecies and the lies?.

i must admit i still get pleasure from reports of the watchtower walls starting to crumble al over the civilized world so i guess i'll continue to pop in from time to time.. as far as trying to de-program and rescue the poor unfortunate brainnumbed watchtower slaves, i think it's a total waste of time after all how do get through to people who prefer to believe in the lies when they know they are lies but they just don't want to see the real truth about the "truth(tm)".

i gues they don't want to see the real truth because it would force them to start thinking for them selves again and for some people that is just too much of a burden to bear.

OlderTom

Hi YougerTom, good to see you posting. Unlike the place We are used to, here healthy discussion is encouraged and you have no one constantly looking over your shoulder in case you might say someting which is not in line with current Watchtower light.

The society explains it'e ever changing light as a sailingship tacking into the wind. I know a little about sailing, a sailing ship gets to where it's going in the long run but the society is tacking back and forth and not making progress.

Example the men of sodom will get a resourection Yes/No six times they changed their mind that's not new light that's flashing light on/off. Look it up for yourself. Unfortunately much of the embarrasing older Watchtower stuff is not on the CD Rom. "Like millions now living will never die" Where are they now? Dead as a doornail.

Ozziepost basically summed it up with his post and didn't leave me much to answer. One of my biggest gripes with the Society is they blatent dishonesty boardering on criminality. They have murdered many people by they rules made of man claiming it to be theocracy.

The Mexico/Malarwi circus. Not many Dubs know about that one. When Jehovah changed his mind on organ transplant. All the BS and blatant misinformation on the blood issue. I could go on and on but unless you research it for yourself your inbuild JDub filter will simply block it out as apostacy. I'm not having a go at you it is the way we were all programmed.

I really urge you to read "that book" and you will know why the society tries so hard to keep it away from the average Watchtower clone. And why they constantly warn against the internet. It's information they cannot control and this wil eventually bring them down in OUR livetime.

You are right, most JDubs are decent and kind hearted people but they are controlled manipulated & exploited by an evil money/power hungry bunch of old farts.

I noticed that with our situation, many of the older ones were really happy for us but they had to shunn us because it's the law. Watchtower law.

The go beyond what is written in the scriptures

To what conclusions have I come?

Don't know for sure yet but I have learned that religion ( not spirituality) is the second oldes racket in the world.

Can't quite accept the idea that there is no creator but much of the book of miths (the bible) has been greatly bent, twisted and distorted. Much of which is in the bible can be verified with a study of ancient history but you know how it is, stories get distorted in time, 2000 years is a long time.

I learned a lot from the Watchtower perhaps too much.

This is always a danger when the student knows more than the master.

At least we are still making progress learning new things rather than going over the same old stuff year after year. I could take a 1950 Watchtower, put nex months date on it and most Watchtower clones would accept it as a 2001 issue.

37

I getting bored with this Board

by OlderTom in

jw
friends

i'm just wondering if it is because i have changed and have gained my freedom from the watchtower enslavement or i just don't care anymore or is it that i have been exposed to too much of the same old complaints about the borg and all the false prophecies and the lies?.

i must admit i still get pleasure from reports of the watchtower walls starting to crumble al over the civilized world so i guess i'll continue to pop in from time to time.. as far as trying to de-program and rescue the poor unfortunate brainnumbed watchtower slaves, i think it's a total waste of time after all how do get through to people who prefer to believe in the lies when they know they are lies but they just don't want to see the real truth about the "truth(tm)".

i gues they don't want to see the real truth because it would force them to start thinking for them selves again and for some people that is just too much of a burden to bear.

OlderTom

You said ...if some Dub comes to my door...
No chance of that happening here, we are on the DO NOT CALL list
I have observed them come into my street visit the houses on either side, one a drug dealer the other a muslim, but the did not knock on our door.

Judged, hung and drawn and quartered all in our absence and without our being able to utter a word in our defence. Now THAT is Christian love Watchtower style.