Vidqun

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Posts by Vidqun

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  196

  2012 Annual Meeting

  by obarac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  2012 annual meeting - october 6th 2012.

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  Vidqun

  Well, it's not such a bad thing. Ultimately, when things go wrong and the brown matter hits the fan, then they must take responsibility. Blame will go there where it's due. They have effectively put their heads on the block. Let's hope for their sake, the axeman is a long way off.
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  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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  Vidqun

  A repeat for Recovery. I think you missed it last time round.

  A good idea would be to take advice from Emanuel Tov, a very clever, but at the same time humble and pragmatic scholar, emphasizing the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.

  A definition of objectivity: “involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena”, e.g., objective awareness or data (Webster). Unfortunately the scope of an interpreter is limited, having to rely on the Biblical account, historical sources, as well as commentaries, to the detriment of true objectivity.

  A definition of subjectivity is: “characteristic of belonging to reality as perceived rather than independent of mind” or “modified or affected by a personal view, experience or background”, e.g., subjective judgment (Webster).

  Objective elements pertain to the description of the text as well as comparative historical data. However, the disciplines of translation as well as exegesis fall squarely in the subjective camp. In addition, a combination of subjective criteria and intuition is necessary to establish the importance of differences in ancient and modern translations, compared to the MT [Masoretic Text]. On the whole, something considered a solid fact by one scholar is contested by another. Because of the nature of interpretation, it attests to a great deal of subjectivity, which should be taken in account when appraising Biblical material.

  The best explanation I have heard to explain your point of view is not found in Revelation at all, but in the book of Isaiah (66:1a). But keep in mind, it is based on interpretation according to the book of Isaiah. As Leolaia demonstrated, interpretation according to the book of Revelation would point in different direction altogether. At all times keep an open mind and do not try and enforce your interpretation on others. It might come back to haunt you (cf. E. Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, p. 22).
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  278

  Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

  i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

  1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

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  Vidqun

  Recovery, a good idea would be to take advice from Emanuel Tov, a very clever, but at the same time humble and pragmatic scholar, emphasizing the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.

  A definition of objectivity: “involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena”, e.g., objective awareness or data (Webster). Unfortunately the scope of an interpreter is limited, having to rely on the Biblical account, historical sources, as well as commentaries, to the detriment of true objectivity.

  A definition of subjectivity is: “characteristic of belonging to reality as perceived rather than independent of mind” or “modified or affected by a personal view, experience or background”, e.g., subjective judgment (Webster).

  Objective elements pertain to the description of the text as well as comparative historical data. However, the disciplines of translation as well as exegesis fall squarely in the subjective camp. In addition, a combination of subjective criteria and intuition is necessary to establish the importance of differences in ancient and modern translations, compared to the MT [Masoretic Text]. On the whole, something considered a solid fact by one scholar is contested by another. Because of the nature of interpretation, it attests to a great deal of subjectivity, which should be taken in account when appraising Biblical material.

  The best explanation I have heard to explain your point of view is not found in Revelation at all, but in the book of Isaiah (66:1a). But keep in mind, it is based on interpretation according to the book of Isaiah. As Leolaia demonstrated, interpretation according to the book of Revelation would point in different direction altogether. At all times keep an open mind and do not try and enforce your interpretation on others. It might come back to haunt you (cf. E. Tov, Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, p. 22).
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  39

  JWs are attending the OSCE meeting in Warsaw as a Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) & giving presentations

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  watchtower representatives (jehovahs christian witnesses) are once again attending the osce, organization for security and co-operation in europe,meeting in warsaw on september 24 - oct. 5, 2012. http://www.osce.org/hdim_2012to see jehovahs witnesses listed as a non-governmental organization, click on http://www.osce.org/hdim_2012?view=conference_documents&display=page_2&arg=92455.

  please scroll down under non-governmental organization and click on administrative centre of jehovahs witnesses in russia as well as european association of jehovah's christian witnesses.

  once you click on them, you will be brought to a page with a list of all of their presentations at the osce.

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  Vidqun

  I think it's a big deal. According to their tenets, JWs are supposed to be strictly neutral and not get involved with politics or worldly affairs. But it is as the one elder told me, they do all these things to advance their brotherhood and do good. However, if an individual JW become involved with politics, he/she would face a JC. If unrepentant he/she would be disfellowshipped.

  And remember, in their publications they refer to the UN as a "scarlet-colored wild beast" that ascends out of the abyss (Rev. 17:3, 8), and the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). One must practice what you preach. No, this is a case of double standards and hypocrisy to an extreme degree. Thanks Barbara for the info.
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  56

  Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity?

  by Emery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get a list of arguments that illustrate how the watchtower society is or isn't following 1st century christianity today.

  thanks again everyone!.

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  Vidqun

  See writings of Tacitus, Suetonis, and Pliny the Younger. They wrote about the Christians without propaganda purposes. They were historians and reported the facts.
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  56

  Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity?

  by Emery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get a list of arguments that illustrate how the watchtower society is or isn't following 1st century christianity today.

  thanks again everyone!.

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  Vidqun

  Christianity is an offshoot of the Jewish religion. A great percentage of early Christians were Jews. So, most Christian practices would have followed those of the Jews and not those of the Greeks. The Jews would not have tolerated the above, neither would the Christians for that matter. Just read what they thought of such practices in their writings. Early Christians did stand out for being exemplary, and that's why they were persecuted. That you can read in Roman historical works and letters. Here I give the Bible writers, especially those of the Christian Greek Scriptures or NT, the benefit of the doubt.
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  85

  I was HAPPY as a JW, how did I get here?

  by MC RubberMallet in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  some have figured out, but i am a poster that previously used another name.

  but even then i did not give many details about myself.

  i barely cracked 100 posts.. but i have never done a thread to explain why i am here.

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  Vidqun

  Ignorance is bliss. I'd rather be in the know, than be ignorant and "happy."
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  56

  Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity?

  by Emery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get a list of arguments that illustrate how the watchtower society is or isn't following 1st century christianity today.

  thanks again everyone!.

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  Vidqun

  O yes, they were allowed beards and could wear dresses!
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  56

  Does the Watchtower really parallel 1st Century Christianity?

  by Emery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get a list of arguments that illustrate how the watchtower society is or isn't following 1st century christianity today.

  thanks again everyone!.

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  Vidqun

  I am sure First Century Christians would not have tolerated or protected pedophiles. They would not have taken out membership of a political organization in order to use its library.
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  33

  How do we get to 1914 and then 1919?

  by God_Delusion in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  okay, this might sound like a really stupid question, but after researching this matter for the last hour, i still have no idea why the watchtower society points to 1914 and 1919 using the 70 weeks theory.. don't get me wrong, i know all about 607 b.c.e., but i am having trouble understanding why the prophecy of the 70 weeks has been added.

  whose idea was it to add the 70 week business into the mix?.

  i've researched the following websites and jwn threads so far, yet i'm still hitting blanks:.

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  Vidqun

  What I have not been able to figure out is how they know the first resurrection started in 1919?