The WT must have borrowed their overlapping generations model from the economists. So there might be some logic in their arguments after all. They measure the overlap with money: "Money endures for multiple periods." With them it is all about the money, and there we should not underestimate them. Money talks. Check out what Wikipaedia has to say on the subject: An overlapping generations model, abbreviated to OLG model, is a type of economic model in which agents live a finite length of time long enough to overlap with at least one period of another agent's life. All OLG models share several key elements: • Individuals receive an endowment of goods at birth. • Goods cannot endure for more than one period. • Money endures for multiple periods. • Individual's lifetime utility is a function of consumption in all periods. The most basic OLG model has the following characteristics: Individuals live for two periods; in the first period of life, they are referred to as the Young. In the second period of life, they are referred to as the Old. • A number of individuals is born in every period. Ntt denotes individuals born in period t. • Nt-1t denotes number of old people in period t. Since the economy begins in period 1. In period 1, there is a group of people who are already old. They are referred to as the initial old. They can be denoted as N0 . • The size of the initial old generation is normalized to 1 i.e. N 00 = 1. • People do not die early, N tt = N tt+1. • Population grows at a constant rate n: • There is only one good in this economy, and it cannot endure for more than one period. • Each individual receives a fixed endowment of this good at birth. This endowment is denoted as y. This endowment of goods can also be thought of as an endowment of labor that the individual uses to work and create a real income equal to the value of good y produced. Under this framework, individuals only work during the young phase of their life, etc.
Posts by Vidqun
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51This generation will by now means pass away..."
by Jewel ini haven't been to a meeting (other than some cousins' weddings) for well over twenty years.
i've always wondered what the fds was going to do with the "generations" thing once pretty much everybody who had been alive in 1914 is gone.
i get that they've come up with some "new light" about this topic, but when i ask my mom (who's still in) i only get "well, the new understanding is complicated...".
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Greetings from a new member
by EdenOne ingreetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.
still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.
sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.
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Vidqun
Eden, I would love to hear your view on "the disgusting thing causing desolation" as touched upon by Daniel and Jesus, and the beast that ascends out of the abyss in the book of Revelation. This is where JW are condemned by their own doctrines. They still assert that above refers to the UN. How is it that they can take out membership of the DPI of the UN as a NGO for nine years? The different JW orgs (European are still part of the OSCE. You know what the book of Revelation has to say about those worshipping the beast or having the number of the beast on their forehead and hand (it is repeated seven or eight times in Revelation). By the way, you cannot have the number of the beast AND the name of God and Christ on your forehead. If these things are indeed so, the Watchtower is in grave trouble (cf. Ezek. 38 & 39; Dan. 12:7; Zech. 13:7, 8; 14:1-5; Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:14; Rev. 11:7, 8). By the way, because I disagreed with the Watchtower on their interpretation of Rev. 11 (amongst others) I was disfellowshipped as an apostate. So beware.
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Greetings from a new member
by EdenOne ingreetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.
still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.
sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.
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Vidqun
Eden, right we've sorted that out. Now, where do Michael and the resurrection fit into your scheme of things? Remember, he is mentioning those in the same context. Don't go according to the chapters and verses, the authors of the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures made no such distinctions. In the Daniel MS of the DSS there is not even a break between the Hebrew and Aramaic text. No, I think your theory needs more work.
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Greetings from a new member
by EdenOne ingreetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.
still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.
sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.
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Vidqun
Eden, thanks for the explanation. I, again, would be looking for an exact historical fit. Interesting theory of the recapitulation, but you will have a problem proving that from the text. Most view it as a continuous thread.
E.g., in Dan. 11:40 the eschatological marker “[the] end time” is mentioned. Another crops up at Dan. 12:1 “and during that time.” Some view this end as the end of the Jewish system of worship, i.e., 70 CE, but then we still have Michael and the resurrection to contend with.
How would you justify a chronological jump from the war between the Ptolemies and Seleucids and “time of [the] end”?
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Greetings from a new member
by EdenOne ingreetings everyone.. just wanted to say hello to everyone, being a new member from western europe.. some may know me from another forum (eden, from e-jehovas-witnesses.com), but most don't, so this is my little intro.. male, in my early 40's.
still an active member in good standing of a jehovah's witnesses congregation in my country, and honestly not planning to change that status, despite my unorthodox beliefs.
sometime i will elaborate the reason why i don't feel i must leave.
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Vidqun
Eden, welcome! I read some of your article on the two kings, especially Dan. 11:40-45, which interests me personally.
First point, Dan. 10-12 covers a period from Cyrus to the resurrection (Dan. 10:1; Dan. 12:2, 13). How is it that you get bogged down with the Seleucids and Ptolemies? Or do you, like most modern scholars, view Daniel as ex eventu, i.e., written after the fact?
Second point, concerning the final versus of chapter 11, these cannot refer to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. E.g., a footnote in the The New Berkeley Bible says: In Antiochus' day Moab longer existed. Antiochus made no African invasions beyond Egypt and he died at Tabae, Persia. Either the writer of the book of Daniel lied, or there is another explanation. You believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, so then the latter must apply.
Some internal evidence from the book itself, indicates that the outcome of most of the visions would lie in the future (cf. Dan. 2:28; 10:14, etc.).
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This generation will by now means pass away..."
by Jewel ini haven't been to a meeting (other than some cousins' weddings) for well over twenty years.
i've always wondered what the fds was going to do with the "generations" thing once pretty much everybody who had been alive in 1914 is gone.
i get that they've come up with some "new light" about this topic, but when i ask my mom (who's still in) i only get "well, the new understanding is complicated...".
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Vidqun
In my opinion, this is the best explanation of the generation, mentioned at Matt. 24:34. But God forbid, that means Christendom has been right all along! The term generation is understood to mean just what it normally means, namely, 30 to 100 years, or a generation, a life span. But the generation referred to in the expression “this generation” is not the generation to whom Christ is speaking, but the generation to whom the signs will become evident. In effect He is saying that the generation which sees the specific signs, that is, the great tribulation, will also see the fulfillment of the second coming of Christ. Vol. 129: Bibliotheca Sacra Volume 129. 1972 (513) (24). Dallas, TX: Dallas Theological Seminary.
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New Here! So many questions! :)
by TeenageInsider inhey everyone!
i'm so happy that i finnally joined i just turned 17 and i have so many questions about the org.. i've been lurking around the site for months, and love reading experiences about bethel, and all the hypocricy that the wtbts spews out.. so i finally joined in and hope to make some great friends.. a little about me:.
im male, 17, and i am a born-in, so this is all i know... i was baptised at age 13 i beleive.... my gramma, and grampa and mom , and sisters and brothers, are all jw's.
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Vidqun
Welcome! Good advice all round. My motto is: Study, study, and study some more. Prepare yourself now for secular studies. Not sure what your interests are. Develop your brain. Only then will you survive in the highly competitive world out there. And yes, watch your back. Bright young men are not appreciated by the Watchtower. Their motto is: Listen, obey and be blessed (don't think).
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Of Bethel a Place of Homosexualiy,Drunkness,Psychotic Episodes,Brawls,Sucide,Immorality,Deceit, Control and Cynism
by Scott77 in"...the intimacy with farm animals is true.
[beastiality], theft, homosexuality, drunkeness, psychotic episodes, brawls, suicide, immorality, deceit and control is all true.
the sad thing is seeing young women wanting to marry a bethelite thinking that she is getting the 'cream of the crop' and they are probably worse than a so-called worldly person...the cynicism was palpable...the most emotionally unhealthy environments to be a part of...socially disfunctional people..."wheres caleb?http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/218165/3/your-most-disturbing-watchtower-bethel-branch-experience-no-full-names-please.
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Vidqun
The NET Bible (New English Translation), an excellent Bible with well-researched footnotes.
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Of Bethel a Place of Homosexualiy,Drunkness,Psychotic Episodes,Brawls,Sucide,Immorality,Deceit, Control and Cynism
by Scott77 in"...the intimacy with farm animals is true.
[beastiality], theft, homosexuality, drunkeness, psychotic episodes, brawls, suicide, immorality, deceit and control is all true.
the sad thing is seeing young women wanting to marry a bethelite thinking that she is getting the 'cream of the crop' and they are probably worse than a so-called worldly person...the cynicism was palpable...the most emotionally unhealthy environments to be a part of...socially disfunctional people..."wheres caleb?http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/218165/3/your-most-disturbing-watchtower-bethel-branch-experience-no-full-names-please.
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Vidqun
Even though it refers to Northern Israel, the prophecy is an ideal fit. Interesting that they chose the name Bethel. NWT Amos 5:5 And do not search for Bethel, [[NET footnote: Ironically, Israel was to seek after the Lord, but not at Bethel (the name Bethel means "the house of God" in Hebrew).]] and to Gilgal YOU must not come, and to Beer-sheba YOU must not pass over; because Gilgal itself will without fail go into exile; and as regards Bethel, it will become something uncanny. [[NET footnote: Heb "disaster," or "nothing"; NIV "Bethel will be reduced to nothing." Again there is irony. The name Bethel means "house of God" in Hebrew. How surprising and tragic that Bethel, the "house of God" where Jacob received the inheritance given to Abraham, would be overrun by disaster.]]. NWT Amos 5:7 O YOU who are turning justice into mere wormwood, and the ones who have cast righteousness itself to the earth. NWT Amos 5:10 In the gate they have hated a reprover, and a speaker of perfect things they detest [[NET they despise anyone who speaks honestly]].
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Evidence regarding Daniel 11 & Antiochus IV
by Bobcat ini was doing research on daniel 8 and 11. what i was wondering was if there was any evidence that the jews saw daniel 8 and 11 fulfilled in antiochus iv.. the explained fulfillments (re: antiochus; non-wt explanations) make a lot of sense, but what specifically i was wondering was if the jews (after the time of antiochus iv) saw the daniel prophecies as being fulfilled in him?
or if there are any threads that discuss this, a link would be appreciated.. thank you in advance.. take care.
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Vidqun
Bobcat, a few observations for what they are worth. Modern scholars study the book of Daniel in fragmentary form. I personally view the book as a unit and study it as such.
Daniel 11&12 covers a period from the time of Darius the Mede (Dan. 11:1) to the resurrection (Dan. 12:2). Few modern scholars would acknowledge the fact. In sharp contrast to the book of the Maccabees, Daniel makes no direct mention of Hellenistic Reform, and the angel delivering the final vision, actually dooms a Jewish uprising (cf. Dan. 11:14).
Those are some of the reasons why quite a few conservative scholars view Dan. 11:40-45 as referring to the time of the Antichrist. In addition, Jesus Christ would reject the Maccabean interpretation of "the disgusting thing causing desolation." As a first fulfillment, he applied it to the Romans, not the Seleucid kings (cf. Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luk. 21:20, 21).