No. In my case they let me be. They knew I had my own thoughts on matters. Then one day I met a sister at the vet. She asked me why I never came to the meetings anymore. I explained to her about the Witnesses and the UN, amomgst other things. I thought it would be good manners answering her and explaining. From that moment onwards they were on my case. Later I found out, one of the reasons why I was disfellowshipped was because I shared my apostate thoughts with others and caused disunity in the congregation. But by then, of course I had written various letters to Brooklyn, New York. I heard the orders to dispatch me came from high up. Moral of the story, you may have apostate thoughts. However you may not share these with others.
Posts by Vidqun
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33At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Vanderhoven7 inat what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?
what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?
is he or she an apostate to the faith?
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28
Did God know Adam and Eve will Sin? - JW perspective
by bioflex ini read about this topic sometime ago in one awake mag (cant rememer which one).
and from the jw perspective, he didnt know which means it took him by suprise or which makes it seem god is not as almighty as we would believe.
this is their reasoning.. http://www.watchtower.org/e/20110101a/article_01.htm.
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Vidqun
Perhaps God works on percentages like the bookies? Say 70-30 they will become rebellious and disobey Him. There's a remote chance that they will remain faithful... Does God allow for the benefit of the doubt?
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11
The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!
by BoogerMan inthey are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.
october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.
13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".
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Vidqun
This is how I understand it. God is the ruler of the universe. This does not change. He has handed judgment and rulership of the earth and its people over to His son. He will govern for a thousand years. After destroying death, he will hand the kingdom back to his Father.
Time indefinite vs. Forever: Hebr. ʿôlām possibly from ʿālam “to hide,” Gr. aiōn. Here the context should be one’s guide. Most scholars translate ʿôlām as “long time,” “farthest, remotest time” or “perpetuity.” From the perspective of the writer/speaker it can look forward, towards the (distant) future or backwards, bygone times (long ago). E.g., God’s kingship is forever (Rev 15:3; cf. Ps. 10:16a; 29:10b; 146:10). John hears what seems to be the voice of a great multitude, crying out, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns” (Rev. 19:6 ESV, NET; cf. Jer. 10:7, 10; Zech. 14:9, 17; 1 Tim. 1:17). However, Jesus, as Messianic king, will be ruling a thousand years (Ps. 45:6, 17; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:4).
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11
The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!
by BoogerMan inthey are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.
october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.
13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".
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Vidqun
Yes, I agree. Jesus will always be the head (Eph. 5:23).
21 To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. (Rev. 3:21 NWT)
This is what Thayer's Lexicon says of the above, which makes sense:
To indicate that he has become a partner in God's universal government (cf. Knapp, De J. Chr. ad dextram dei sedente, in his Scripts var. arg., p. 41ff; (Stuart, Commentary on Hebrews, excurs. iv.)). That these expressions are to be understood in this figurative sense, and not of a fixed and definite place in the highest heavens (as Chr. From Fritzsche in Nov. Opuscc. acad., p. 209ff tries to prove, after the orthodox theologians of the reformed church), will be questioned by no one who carefully considers Rev. 3:21.
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11
The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!
by BoogerMan inthey are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.
october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.
13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".
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Vidqun
Why are you looking at this thread then if you are so disinterested? Give it a break. Rather follow threads at your level and interest. Your comment adds nothing of value.
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11
The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!
by BoogerMan inthey are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.
october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.
13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".
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Vidqun
October 2023 Study Watchtower p. 28, par. 13 - "After Jesus was resurrected, he entered the Most Holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him."
I have news for them. There is not going to be a temple in heaven. When Revelation refers to the sanctuary in heaven, it points to a symbolic tabernacle (cf. Rev. 15:5). Funny. One would have thought that the anointed would know this:
22 And I did not see a temple in it, for Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb [is].
23 And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb. (Rev. 21:22, 23 NW)
It looks like the apostle Paul was wrong when he told Christians that they were God's spiritual temple.
Yes, BoogerMan, you’ve hit the nail on the head. This is the point. God’s people is going to make up God’s temple. This also explains why God orders the measuring of the temple as his property. His people will be kept safe through the tribulation period. However, the courtyard He allows to be trampled by the nations for three and a half years (Rev. 11:1, 2; cf. Rev. 7:14).
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33
"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"
by BoogerMan insimple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .
a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.
b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.
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Vidqun
Boogerman, I see you left Matt. 19:28 out. These sit on thrones. Who sits on a throne? See Rev. 3:21.
"and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth." (Rev. 5:10 DBY).
"You made them into a kingdom for God to rule, cohanim to serve him; and they will rule over the earth" [lit. "on," καὶ βασιλεύσουσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς]. (Rev. 5:10 GNT). (Rev. 5:10 CJB)
So who is right? See Rev. 9:11: "They have as king over them [lit. "on," ἔχουσιν ἐπ᾽ αὐτῶν βασιλέα] (NA28) the angel of the abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon."
According to the dictionaries and lexicons: ἐπὶ, marker of power, authority, control of or over someone or someth., over
a. w. gen. (Hdt. 5, 109 al.; Mitt-Wilck. I/1, 124, 1=BGU 1120, 1 [5 BC] πρωτάρχῳ ἐ. τοῦ κριτηρίου; 287, 1; LXX; AscIs 2:5 τοῦ ἐ. τῶν πραγματε[ι] ῶν=Denis p. 109) βασιλεύειν ἐ. τινος (Judg 9:8, 10; 1 Km 8:7) Rv 5:10. ἔχειν βασιλείαν ἐ. τῶν βασιλέων 17:18. ἐξουσίαν ἔχειν ἐ. τινος have power over someone 20:6. See BDAG.
Christians are referred to as kings in Rev 1:6 (v.l.); 5:10 (v.l.). e) Βασιλεύς is used for the king of the а ἄβυσσος in Rev 9:11. See EDNT.
As for βασιλεύω, I can't find any dictionary or lexicon backing you up. Yes it means "reign" (with a king in mind) • βασιλεύω fut. βασιλεύσω; 1 aor. ἐβασίλευσα; pf. 3 sg. βεβασίλευκεν 2 Km 5:10 (Hom.+) to exercise authority at a royal level, be king, rule (B-D-F §177; 233, 2; 234, 5; Rob.: 801, 833, 902). See BDAG.
βασιλεύω be king, rule w. gen. over or of something Mt 2:22; also w. ἐπί and gen. or acc. Lk 19:14, 27; Rv 5:10. Fig. Ro 5:14 . Of God and Christ Rv 11:15. In aor. (ingressive) become king Rv 11:17; 19:6. [pg 34] Gingrich Lex
βασιλεύω [βασιλεύς] be king, rule 1 Ti 6:15; w. simple gen. over/of Mt 2:22; also w. ἐπί and gen. Rv 5:10, or acc. Lk 1:33 . In imagery Ro 5:14; 5:21ab; 6:12. – In the aor. β. = become king 1 Cor 4:8; Rv 11:17; 19:6. DankerLex
Ordinary rule: ἄρχω, by a ruler: to rule or govern, w. implication of special status, rule act. w. gen. over someth. or someone.
ἄρχων: ruler. one who has eminence in a ruling capacity, ruler, lord, prince. See BDAG. Interestingly, Jesus is referred to as "ruler over the kings of the earth" in Rev. 1:9. At that stage he was not yet king.
But Boogerman, I do it my way and you do it your way. You can believe what you like and interpret the Scriptures in any way. Let me not stand in your way. As long as you are happy with what you believe.
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33
"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"
by BoogerMan insimple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .
a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.
b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.
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Vidqun
BoogerMan, this is where he got it from. It is indeed found in the Greek MSS. Jesus told his disciples they will sit on thrones. Note Peter talks of a "royal priesthood." You can check it in your translation(s) of the Bible.
28 Jesus said to them, Truly I say to YOU, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19:28)
9 But YOU are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. (1 Pet. 2:9)
21 To the one that conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, even as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. (Rev. 3:21)
9 And they sing a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth. (Rev. 5:9-10)
6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years. (Rev. 20:6 NW) [Cursive script added.]
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33
"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"
by BoogerMan insimple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .
a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.
b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.
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Vidqun
Fisherman, this is how I see and experience it. I don't see it as time but rather different levels of time. God created everything, so time as we know it would have started then. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar: "He changes times and seasons, deposing some kings and establishing others. He gives wisdom to the wise; he imparts knowledge to those with understanding" (Dan. 2:21 NET). God can change times and seasons at will because He created them.
Time for us is absolute. That's all we know. For God it's relative, judged or measured by comparing it to different timelines and eternity. To understand His view of time one would need "clear thinking," as you say and help from His Spirit and Word. You mentioned the "creative" days. For us it would be a long time. For God six days have passed. We find ourselves in the seventh day, which is still ongoing. Lots must still happen. In that sense, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He will finalize what God has started (Gen. 2:3; Matt. 12:8; cf. Hebr. 3:11, 18; 4:1-11).
You mentioned Peter and God's patience. This made me think of Habakkuk. Also he could not understand God's patience until God reassured him: "Then Yahweh answered me and said, “Write the vision and make it plain on the tablet so that ⌊it might be read quickly⌋. a For there is yet a vision for the appointed time; it will give witness to the end, and it will not lie. If it tarries, wait for it, for it will surely come and not delay."
a. Literally “it might run reading upon it” [W. Hall Harris III et al., eds., The Lexham English Bible (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012), Hab 2:2–3.]
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33
"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"
by BoogerMan insimple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .
a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.
b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.
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Vidqun
Fisherman, you missed this one. Peter did say it under inspiration. Don't overlook it. It's a fact: "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Pet. 3:8 ESV)
Then there's these: "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." (Gen. 2:4 ESV)
"He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." (Dan. 7:25; cf. 12:7 ESV) The learned tells us it means 3 1/2 years. No. He's definitely using a different time scale from what He gave us. But He doesn't leave us in the dark. He explains it quite nicely, so we can work it out.
Ex. "shortly:" Lot of scholars take it literally and apply Revelation exclusively to the first century. These view it as written ca. 70 CE. But for various reasons I believe in a late date for Revelation and view from Chapter 4 as future. A little of it can be applied to our immediate past. The rest must be future.