This conversation has deteriorated quite rapidly. I had hoped we can discuss some of the specifics, go down to molecular level. Isn't that what the video was all about. Debate, two different poles of opinion, each stating their case and allowing the neutral observer to pick a side, like the BBC does now and then. So much for that pipe dream. Nevertheless, it will remain to be a fascinating subject, a paradox, for some to joke about, and for others to strengthen their face.
Posts by Vidqun
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53Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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53
Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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Vidqun
No, his argument is even simpler than that. Chemists, biochemists and molecular scientists in the most advanced laboratory setups cannot even synthesize a living cell, even if you supply all the necessary ingredients. They cannot even synthesize RNA, an absolute necessary for a cell to function. They are not even close.
And what I found very interesting is his definition of life, something you all feel you must ridicule. He gave the text book definition of abiogenesis and a living entity. This is also what I learnt in my studies.
Abiogenesis: Origin of life from living matter. And a living entity must:
1) Be responsive to its environment.
2) Grow and change.
3) Be able to reproduce.
4) Have a metabolism and breathe.
5) Maintain homeostasis (steady internal physical and chemical condition)..
6) Be made up of cells.
7) Be passing traits to offspring.
Like your elder friend, if they accomplish the above, I will become a believer. But I will still believe in a Creator, because then man has become a "creator." Feel free to give your definition of a living entity, I'm all ears. I thought you all might want to criticize the above and give your own definition. As you'll notice, this is a tall order. One must be very brave to do research on the origin of life. But you must inform your elder friend, he must watch out what he wishes for. With CRISPR technology, this is quite possible. With the geneticists the sky is the limit.
Cofty, do give us more to wet our appetites. Ad hominem attacks don't do anything for me, I'm afraid. Be specific.
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53
Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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Vidqun
I should have added. Feel free not to watch it. I can see why you all did not excel in the debating team. Must say, all comments so far qualify as "word salad," however this time "a coherent jumble of words and verbal sounds." Not one has anything substantial to say, except for ad hominem attacks of the person and his religion. One way of hiding one's ignorance. Unfortunately there's nothing I can go on that's worth answering, except perhaps the application of "word salad."
By the way MeanMrMustard, what he's saying: In the primordial soup would have to be many atoms and molecules that would have to be combined to start off life. Although millions of combinations being possible, only one combination would sustain life, e.g., the naturally occurring D-ribose sugar in DNA, RNA and ATP (see Wikipedia). What's the chance of that? But I'm afraid, only an experienced chemist would be able to work this out. So ask for a (chemist) friend.
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53
Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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Vidqun
word salad: "an incoherent jumble of words and non-verbal sounds, often a symptom of mental illness."
Molecules don't care for [doesn't encourage] life processes because of endless molecular combinations, whereas only one combination is necessary to sustain life. Even if the right molecular combinations are achieved, these have a half life, which deteriorates quickly. E.g. RNA is very unstable and cannot be sustained outside the cell (as we found out with the MRNA "vaccines" which need to be protected by man-made nanolipids).
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53
Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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Vidqun
Yes, it might sound like word salad to some. One needs some background in the subject to really appreciate what they are saying.
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53
Critique of Chemical Evolution
by Vidqun in"molecules don't care about life.
" first part deals with abiogenesis and the state of current research.
second part stephen meyer proposes intelligent design as an explanation of some of the problems.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bss0rxpsbuq.
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Vidqun
"Molecules don't care about life." First part deals with Abiogenesis and the state of current research. Second part Stephen Meyer proposes Intelligent Design as an explanation of some of the problems.
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34
Hailstones?
by NotFormer inwhen i was interested in things jw two decades or so ago, i never came across these mentions of hailstones.
it crops up so often now that it's almost a meme!
when did it become a thing in jw speak, and what does it refer to?.
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Vidqun
Translation: “hailstones” in NW OT.
Translation: “hail” in Revelation. As in OT, the use of “hail” in Revelation seems to be literal, imho.
And the first one blew his trumpet. And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up. (Rev. 8:7)
And the sanctuary of God that is in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen in his sanctuary. And there occurred lightnings and voices and thunders and an earthquake and a great hail. (Rev. 11:19)
And a great hail with every stone about the weight of a talent descended out of heaven upon the men, and the men blasphemed God due to the plague of hail, because the plague of it was unusually great. (Rev. 16:21 NW1984)
Problem with JWs, they view the trumpet and plague judgments as figurative, symbolic of their preaching messages. This allows them to come up with such wayward interpretations.
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43
Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?
by Sea Breeze inno mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
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Vidqun
PetrW, I do think more groups and individuals were involved with the creation of Israel in Palestine. The Zionist Jews have been plotting this for a long time. And do not forget the bankers, i.e., the Rothschilds. There were quite a few fingers in that pie.
Aqwsed, just one problem with your explanation. I'm missing the logic of your argument. Do you really think the tribes exist today? As far as I know, in times long past the Jews had been scattered to all corners of the globe. Not even the geneticists will be able to distinguish the tribes, because the Israelites had been mixed into a plethora of new combinations. Note, the geneticists are able to explain where families and individuals come from, but cannot distinguish the tribes because these don't exist anymore. So, not even God will be able to accomplish such a feat, because no registers were kept. Jews intermingled with themselves and their neighbours. The tribes are something of the past (destruction of Jerusalem, 70 CE). Closest you will come to distinguish Jewish groups, is the identification of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish ancestry. Conclusion: The tribes of Revelation are symbolic, pointing to the Israel of God as a whole, Christian gentile and Jew alike, nothing more, nothing less.
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Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?
by Sea Breeze inno mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
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Vidqun
Sea Breeze, let’s rather say, replacement theology emphasizes a few fundamental verses which place all other passages and verses in clear perspective. Those are some of the verses I quoted. E.g., if someone says Enoch and Elijah went to heaven, then there’s just one verse needed to cancel such a statement and that is Jesus’ words at John 3:13. End of story.
I am about to test the generalization of Gal. 6:16 according to your Bible scholars. Let’s first look at the meaning of καί.
ΚΑ´Ι Conjunction, used in two principal senses, either copulative, to join words and sentences, and, Lat. et; or making a single word or clause emphatic, also, even, Lat. etiam.
A. copulative, and, merely joining words or sentences.
B. influencing single words or clauses, also, even, Lat. etiam, ἔπειτά με καὶ λίποι αἰών then let life also forsake me, i.e. life as well as all other goods, Il.; καὶ αὐτοί they also, they likewise, Xen.; εἴπερ τισκαὶ ἄλλος Plat., etc. Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon (abridged).
3169 καί conj. and, also, but, even; that is, namely; καὶ . . . καί both . . . and, not only . . . but also; frequently used merely to mark the beginning of a sentence (UBS Lex).
How does the majority of scholars and editors interpret the “Israel” of Gal. 6:16?
Ἰσραήλ, ο: figuratively, of Christians as the new covenant people of God Israel (Gal. 6.16). See ANLEX.
ὁ Ἰσραήλ τοῦ Θεοῦ (genitive of possession), i. e. Christians, Gal. 6:16 (See Thayer).
of Christians as participants in the privileges of Israel Ro 9:6b; Gal 6:16. [pg 95] (See Gingrich Lex).
believers within God’s promise system as authentic Israelites Ro 9:6b; Gal 6:16. (See Danker Lex).
After Deutero-Isaiah and Ezra, many attempts were made to define the true Israel. Paul speaks of Christians as the true “Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). See Eerdman’s Dictionary of the Bible.
And here’s an interesting and balanced discussion of “Israel” of Gal. 6:16:
There is widespread agreement that the Pauline reference to the Israel of God (Gal 6:16) refers to Christians, either to Jewish Christians as distinguished from other Christians by the copula καί (Schrenk) or — by means of the epexegetical function of καί — to all Christians, as in the preceding discussion. Neither explanation is, however, totally satisfactory, for, on the one hand, nothing indicates a limitation of the saying to Jewish Christians (Dahl, et al., against Schrenk); on the other hand, it is evident that "addition of καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ . . . (widens) the circle of addressees" (F. Mussner, Gal [HTKNT] 417). A possible explanation is offered in the extension of the greeting of peace (cf. H. Lietzmann and W. G. Kümmel, 1-2 Cor [HNT, 51969] on 1 Cor 1:2b!) to "the total Israel of God, wherever they may be" (H. Schlier, Gal [KEK] 283). But one may not exclude the possibility that here the original Israel comes into view (D. Lührmann, Gal [ZBK] 102), either in its portion which does not yet believe, but will come to faith in the future — "an Israel (of God) within (all) Israel" (Richardson 82; similarly: E. D. Burton, Gal [ICC] 357f.) — or (more probably) the same as the πᾶς Ἰσραήλ of Rom 11:26 (Mussner, Gal 417n.61). See EDNT.
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Who are the 144K Male Jewish Virgins in Revelation 7?
by Sea Breeze inno mystery here.
they are all male jewish virgins, just like scripture says.
so, why all the muck and fuss?
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Vidqun
Sea Breeze, I believe you answered those questions yourself.
Your definition of Israel: The Republic of Israel, member of the United Nations, etc. God's covenant with them annulled (Zech. 11:10). Jesus said: "Your house has been abandoned to you," and "The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and be given to a nation producing its fruits." (Matt. 21:43; 23:38)
My definition of Israel: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female– for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:28-29 NET)
So, it's not a question of literal or symbolic. It has to to do with obedience and doing God's will.