Welcome! And yes, I am also a fan of Coldplay.
Posts by Vidqun
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42New member!!
by Viva la Vida inthis is my first post even thou ive been lurking for some time.
i was raised in as a jw, and im still in because of my family.
since waking up i found meetings, assemblies and fs stressing and thought writing in here might be therapeutic.
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38
Yet another Septuagint manuscript using the divine name found
by slimboyfat inlarry hurtado mentioned on his blog that yet another early manuscript of the septuagint has been found that uses the divine name instead of lord (kurios), this time representing the divine name with ancient hebrew letters (yhwh) in what is the earliest extant copy of the psalms in greek.
hurtado argues that the use of the definite article before the divine name indicates that the manuscript relies on earlier copies that used lord (kurios), but the fact remains that all the earliest copies of the septuagint that have survived use some form of the divine name and none use lord (kurios) as a substitute.
that's about ten out of ten for manuscripts of the septuagint earlier than mid-second century c.e so far.. http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/new-oxyrhynchus-manuscripts/.
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Vidqun
No, I disagree.
The letters of the Tetragrammaton are YHWH. YHYH is called a Quadriliteral.
1.1.3 The Origin of the Hebrew Quadriliteral YHYH Here two explanations seem to be feasible, both working in tandem to give rise to the form yhyh:
1) In some of the earlier MSS the Tetragrammaton is found, written with archaic Hebrew letters. A clear distinction is made between yodh and waw. But in many later MSS it had been written with Hebrew square letters. Often, among these, no discernable distinction is made between yodh and waw. This becomes clear when one studies the Tetragrammaton in the different MSS of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
a) In time, yodh and waw, occurring at the beginning of a word are used alternatively (cf. primae Yôd of Gesenius-Kautzsch)
b) Later, according to Harris, a waw beginning a word or syllable would change to yodh (as in the pe-waw verbs and the verb itself)
c) Bruce M. Metzger discusses the Tetragrammaton in letters from Nahhal Hhever’s “Cave of Horror”. He writes: “As is the case with manuscripts from Qumran, the scribe does not clearly distinguish the shape of yod from that of waw.”
2) First century Hebrew scholars might also have been influenced by yâh yâh of Is. 38:11. This is the only occurrence of the duplication of yh (=Jâh) in the Hebrew Bible. The scribe of DSIa would abbreviate it as yh. Later the Hebrew quadriliteral yhyh would be used in place of the Tetragrammaton in Aquila’s Greek version. Preformative y + MH hyh > yhyh (Origen’s Hexapla; some Aquila MSS).
A similar form, JeJâ, would appear in the Aramaic Targums with Tiberian vocalization, which is clarified by Walker: Aquila’s version, made round about 130 A.D., is remarkable for its Old Hebrew lettering of the Divine Name in the midst of the Greek text. Put into square character, what Aquila wrote was yhyh, Jâh-Jâh, the popular substitute for yhwh “Jahweh”, the ineffable Name, the very naming of which was regarded as blasphemy as far back as the third century B.C., if the LXX at Lev. xxiv 16 represents current public opinion.
For one can imagine that, as a Gentile convert to Judaism, Aquila was careful not to trap his Greek-speaking Jewish readers into uttering the Name “according to its letters”. By the time the Mishna was compiled (c. 190 A.D.) the pronunciation had become practically JeJâ as the form yeyâ shows.
The later Greek form II I II I [PIPI] was used to transcribe Aquila’s Old Hebrew form of yhyh, and, in the opinion of CERIANI [CERIANI, Monumenta sacra et profana, II, p. 106 ff., quoted in SWETE, O.T. in Greek, p. 39, n. 4.], this was first done either by Origen or Eusebius. II I II I does not represent the Tetragrammaton, as is generally held, but yhyh, so that there is no justification for supposing that any identity of form of square character yodh and waw in the first century was involved.
Actually, apart from stone inscriptions at Dura and on a Galilean synagogue (NSI, No. 148B), Manuscript evidence of their identical form is lacking. They are quite well differentiated in the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah (DSIa), and whoever was responsible for the present LXX reading of Dan. ix 2, to wit THGH [tei gei], apparently noticed the stroke to the left characteristic of yodh and pictured it by T as against waw.
Had Aquila written the Name exactly as spelt in the text before him, those who transcribed his text would surely have written II Y II I, for as has been pointed out consonantal waw was consistently rendered by upsilon in the transliteration of Hebrew personal names in the LXX [See N. Walker, The Meaning of Moses (1948), pp. 8 – 11].
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Yet another Septuagint manuscript using the divine name found
by slimboyfat inlarry hurtado mentioned on his blog that yet another early manuscript of the septuagint has been found that uses the divine name instead of lord (kurios), this time representing the divine name with ancient hebrew letters (yhwh) in what is the earliest extant copy of the psalms in greek.
hurtado argues that the use of the definite article before the divine name indicates that the manuscript relies on earlier copies that used lord (kurios), but the fact remains that all the earliest copies of the septuagint that have survived use some form of the divine name and none use lord (kurios) as a substitute.
that's about ten out of ten for manuscripts of the septuagint earlier than mid-second century c.e so far.. http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/new-oxyrhynchus-manuscripts/.
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Vidqun
Slimboyfat, a few years back the Awake! published a photo of a Greek OT MS with something that resembles the Tetragrammaton. I wrote to them, explaining what was on the photo was yhyh, and not the Tetragrammaton. As far as I know, the mistake was never corrected.
yhyh is the replacement of the Tetragrammaton that Aquila used in his Greek translation. Very few of those MSS survived. Most well-known of them is found as a column in Origen's Hexapla. As a Jewish proselyte, he would have avoided the Tetragrammaton for various reasons. This is the replacement of the Tetragrammaton in some of the Aramaic Targums with Tiberian vocalization.
Aquila’s version, made round about 130 A.D., is remarkable for its Old Hebrew lettering of the Divine Name in the midst of the Greek text. Put into square character, what Aquila wrote was yhyh, Jâh-Jâh [cf. yâh of MT and Greek ’Iá of Aq, Sym, Theod, and Quinta of Origen’s Hexapla], the popular substitute for yhwh "Yahweh" the ineffable Name, the very naming of which was regarded as blasphemy as far back as the third century BC, if the LXX at Lev. xxiv 16 represents current public opinion.... By the time the Mishna was compiled (c. 190 A.D.) the pronunciation had become practically JeJâ as the form yeyâ shows....
The recovery of a purer Ben Asher Text by KAHLE [KITTEL, Biblia Hebraica (Third Edition, 1945)] reveals that the Divine Name was earlier pointed yehyâh, that is with the vowels of JeJâ and not those of 'Adhonâi. It seems to me that this vocalization supports the implication of Aquila and the Mishnaic form, namely, that in the first two centuries A.D. at least, if not later, the Divine Name was uttered JehJâh or briefly JeJâ. [i]
[i] N . Walker , “ The Writing of the Divine Name in Aquila and the Ben Asher Text ” , Vetus Testamentum , vol . III, No. 1, January, 1953, pp. 103, 104 .
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What evidence is there for the miracles of the Bible OUTSIDE of the Bible?
by punkofnice inok. this is something i've wondered about.. people of certain religions tend to use their own holy book as evidence for things in itself.
this seems very circular to me.
using the book to prove the book in my view is pointless.. i am not aware of any of the 'miracles' of the bible or the quran as having any substantial evidence outside of themselves to give credibility to the books themselves.. has anyone come across such evidence?.
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Vidqun
Punky, difficult question. When I read up on God's name, I came across evidence of Jesus being involved with miracles. Later Jewish writings accused him of effecting miracles by using God's name, indirectly admitting that he was responsible for miracles and that he did use God's name. I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's the best I can do. I looked it up and this is what the source has to say:
According to the Jewish Talmud, according to uncensored versions, Jesus Christ effected miracles by calling on the Name, an indirect acknowledgement that he did use God’s name. He himself declared: "I have made your name known to the people..." (cf. John 17:6, 26; 5:43). Early Coptic texts (Pistis Sophia) tells of Jesus praying to his father by addressing him by various names and incantations: Aeeiouo, Iao, Aoi, and others. In another passage, Jesus addresses his Father in the following names and words: Iao Iouo, Aoi, Oia, and others. This is an indirect indication that he did pronounce God’s Name.
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Accused of thinking too much
by biometrics ini've been officially accused of "thinking too much".. i've tried to quit thinking, but i'm hoplessly addicted to it.i just can't seem to turn my brain off.. at times duing my school years i was accused of not thinking enough.
now i'm guilty of thinking too much!.
the brother even went on to say "could you imagine what the witness organisation if everyone was thinking independently like you do"?
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Vidqun
Thinking too much had mixed blessings for me. A long, long time ago my athletic trainer told me I think too much. I must shut up and do what he told me to do. For thinking too much I came in the "Truth," and for thinking too much I was kicked out of the "Truth." So, thinking too much can have consequences, good or bad.
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Daniel Chapter 7 - Commentary - NEW ARTICLE
by EdenOne ini've just published a new article on my website.. it's called: "daniel and the future of the 'saints of the most holy' - a commentary on daniel chapter 7".
i'd like to draw your attention in particular to the identity of the fourth beast since i depart clearly from the more or less consensual explanation that is about rome and the antichrist.
i won't waste time with that it isn't, though, and focus on what it is.
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Vidqun
Eden, a final bit of criticism on your interpretation. I see you explain the four heads of the third beast as the Diadochi. So far I agree. But what would be unusual is for one of the four heads of the third beast, the Seleucids, to become the fourth beast. This is an unprecedented development, certainly the exception to the rule. Each of the previous beasts would represent a new nation(s). That's another reason why I prefer the natural progression of the beasts to be Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and lastly Rome.
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What happened to Rolf Furuli?
by Vidqun inrolf seems to have disappeared from the face of the earth.
he is not active on b-hebrew or other message boards anymore.
i wrote to him with a query, and has not heard a thing.
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Vidqun
Dr. Furuli is again up and about, debating with his peers at b-Hebrew. For a few months he pushed his take on the Hebrew verb, but not many of his peers are too keen on his purely linguistic analyses, which is subjective to an extreme degree. Last discussion (June) centered round the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton. They seemed to agree that pursuing the pronounciation of the Tetragrammaton is futile. Although the Tetragrammaton often appears in the DSS, the tendency already existed for the scribes to replace it with Adonai. G. Gertoux's book came under the spotlight, as well as the views of N. Gordon. Both go for a pronuncation similar to modernday "Jehovah." For those interested, check out the archives at b-Hebrew.
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Know your place..
by The Quiet One inthis weeks watchtower study contains an image that depicts the hierarchy of the org, with the picture showing god and the angels, followed by the governing body directly underneath heaven.. and the rest descending further away from it.. (check the following link, my description isn't the best.
) "the earthly part of jehovahs organization includes: 1.the governing body 2.branch committees 3.travelling overseers 4.bodies of elders 5.congregations 6.individual publishers very subtle.. http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130415/do-not-tire-out/.
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Vidqun
Where's Jesus, the head of the congregation?
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Daniel Chapter 7 - Commentary - NEW ARTICLE
by EdenOne ini've just published a new article on my website.. it's called: "daniel and the future of the 'saints of the most holy' - a commentary on daniel chapter 7".
i'd like to draw your attention in particular to the identity of the fourth beast since i depart clearly from the more or less consensual explanation that is about rome and the antichrist.
i won't waste time with that it isn't, though, and focus on what it is.
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Vidqun
Eden, Daniel refers to Israel as "the beautiful land," (= "land of the Decoration," NW, see Dan. 8:9; 11:16, 41, 45), not as "the whole earth."
Of all the nations of that time, Rome would utilize iron more than any before. Archaeologists call the period "the middle iron age." Rome made extensive use of iron whereas some of the older nations such as the Greek City states were still advancing from Bronze weapons. This is why they got beaten. The superiority of Roman weapons and tactics would subdue "all the inhabited earth."
This is what the Keil-Delitzsch Commentary had to say:
Dan. 7:23. Fourth kingdom. Daniel receives the following explanation regarding the fourth beast. It signifies a fourth kingdom, which would be different from all the preceding, and would eat up and destroy the whole earth. “The whole earth is the ο?κουμ?νη ,” the expression, without any hyperbole, for the whole circle of historical nations.
These four kingdoms are the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Macedo-Grecian, and the Roman. This was an opinion held by Josephus (Ant. 10.10.4 §209). He viewed the third layer coming from the west, identifying it with Greece, so that the fourth should be Rome. This was also the conclusion reached by Martin Luther: “In this interpretation and opinion,” he observes, “all the world are agreed, and history and fact abundantly establish it.” This would be the case, until the end of the nineteenth century.
The relation of the world-kingdoms to the kingdom and people of God, represented by the gradation of the metals, correspond only to the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Macedo-Grecian, and Roman world-kingdoms, but not to the Babylonian, Median, and Persian. First the Roman kingdom spread its power and dominion over the whole ο?κουμ?νη , over all the historical nations of antiquity in Europe, Africa, and Asia. “There is” (says Herodian, ii. 11. 7) “no part of the earth and no region of the heavens whither the Romans have not extended their dominion.”
Still more the prophecy of Daniel reminds us of the comparison of the Roman world-kingdom with the ear lier world-kingdoms, the Assyri o-Baylonian, the Persian, and the Macedo- Grecian, in Dionys. Halicar., when in the proaem. 9 he says: “There are the most famous kingdoms down to our time, and this their duration and power. But the kingdom of the Romans ruled through all the regions of the earth which are accessible, inhabited by men; it ruled also over the whole sea, and it alone and first made the eas t and the west its boundaries.”
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What if a brother ask you if the big A comes, would YOU repent?
by Iamallcool inhow would you answer him?
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Vidqun
I will repent from having been a gullible, trusting fool, for allowing the GB to think for me (that is actually unforgivable, one should think for oneself and exercise one's own conscience), and for eating up all the lies dished up by them.