Jhine, my guess would be that they used the Greek Septuagint most of the time. In most copies the Tetragrammaton had been replaced by kyrios and theos, which would have been part of the Hellenization program instituted by the Seleucids, which the Maccabees fought against. By then Hebrew was effectively a dead language. Aramaic and Greek were spoken by the man in the street. That's why the Aramaic Targums came into being. Mishnaic Hebrew was still spoken by the rabbis and priests, but not understood by the masses. Very few could read or write Biblical Hebrew. The apostle Paul had a rabbinic background, so he would resort under the few. We know he was interested in "scrolls and (ancient) parchments" (similar to the Dead Sea Scrolls, no doubt), for he tells Timothy to bring them to him (2 Tim. 4:13).
Posts by Vidqun
-
62Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.
by Johnny Brown in"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.
11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+
-
-
-
62
Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.
by Johnny Brown in"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.
11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+
-
-
Vidqun
For those that are interested is this age-old dispute, you should look into the Arian Controversy. According to the evidence, I, personally, would have sided with Arius, which would make me an Arian, therefore a heretic in the eyes of the Church:
The Arian controversy describes several controversies between the priest and theologian Arius and the Church Father, Bishop Athanasius, related to Christology which divided the Catholic Church from before the Council of Nicea in 325 to after the Council of Constantinople in 381 into two opposing theological factions. There was no formal schism, but instead it remained an internal conflict in the Church. The most important of these controversies concerned the substantial relationship between God the Father and Jesus Christ.
The early history of the controversy must be pieced together from about 35 documents found in various sources. The Trinintarian historian Socrates of Constantinople reports that Arius first became controversial under the bishop Athanasius of Alexandria, when Arian made the following syllogism: he said, "If the Father begat the Son, he that was begotten had a beginning of existence: and from this it is evident, that there was a time when the Son was not. It therefore necessarily follows, that he had his substance from nothing".
Bishop Alexander of Alexandria was criticised for his slow reaction against Arius. Like his predecessor Dionysius, he has been charged with vacillation. The question that Arius raised had been left unsettled two generations previously. Therefore Alexander allowed the controversy to continue until he felt that it had become dangerous to the peace of the Church. Then he called a council of bishops and sought their advice. Once they decided against Arius, Alexander delayed no longer. He deposed Arius from his office, and excommunicated both him and his supporters, etc. (See Wikipedia)
-
62
Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.
by Johnny Brown in"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.
11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+
-
-
Vidqun
Johnny, I think it is too soon for you to go off your meds. -
62
Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.
by Johnny Brown in"for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.
11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+
-
-
Vidqun
I concur with what Leaving_quietly said. I thought a few additional thoughts might be in order. As to their translation “Jehovah,” many comments have been made and many books and articles written. Here the Committee became stuck in the time warp of the early twenties when the name “Jehovah” was popular. In the mean time this name has gone out of vogue to be replaced by “Yahweh.”
What might assist you in your studies, is taking note of the style of NT writers. In this case, Paul quotes from a variety of verses in the OT. Verse 11 is a quote from Isaiah 28:16 (LXX → Greek Septuagint), which points to the Messiah. As has been pointed out, verse 13 is a quote from Joel (2:32 LXX), indicating YHWH. However, in our current copies of the LXX “lord” is used and not the Tetragrammaton.
If only the Committee stuck to their guns to only replace “lord” with the Tetragrammaton (= YHWH) at those places which are indicated as OT quotations. Unfortunately they decided to replace it in some instances where it is clearly not referring to the Tetragrammaton, e.g., the Lord’s day. Here the NT differentiates between the Lord’s (Jesus’) day, and the Lord’s (YHWH’s) day.
-
114
What is truth?
by Heisenberg inwell, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.
i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.
they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.
-
-
Vidqun
Heisenberg, glad to see you're still around. What do you know about Christian neutrality (cf. James 4:4)? Are you aware that as a Witness, you're not even allowed to be a member of Y.M.C.A. You should not take sides in politics and you're not allowed to vote. As the saying goes, the Christian finds himself in the world, but is no part of the world (cf. John 18:36). Some spent years in jail because of their Christian neutrality. In Malawi the brothers and sisters had to endure torture and death for refusing to buy a political card.
Yes, the common excuse of the Witnesses is "they are part of the UN and OSCE in order to do good to the brothers." But what about one’s Christian neutrality? Is it only applicable to some (the R&F) and not to others (the leaders)? Is that not a clear case of double standards? You say you’ve read CoC, then you should know about the Mexico-Malawi scandal.
A good example is the nation of Israel. What happened to them when they made alliances with the nations? The prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah had a lot to say about it.
Do yourself a favor and study what the publications have to say about Christian neutrality. See who they identify as “the disgusting thing causing desolation” (cf. Dan. 11:31; Matt. 24:15) and “the beast that ascends out of the abyss” (cf. Rev. 17:8). The Revelation-Climax book (pp. 196 - 198) has a few very interesting paragraphs and illustrations on “the mark of the beast.” If you have access to the book, look it up.
So what do you think will happen when you confront the brothers with these enlightening facts (from their own publications). Yes, you’ve guessed it. You are disfellowshipped. Don’t you think there’s something wrong with an organization that is afraid of the truth?
-
114
What is truth?
by Heisenberg inwell, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.
i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.
they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.
-
-
Vidqun
One must practice what one preaches. This is especially true of religion. If you find out a religious group says one thing and practices another, that would be hypocritical. E.g. if you call the UN "the disgusting thing causing desolation" and "the beast that ascends from the abyss" and you join them for the sake of a library card, there is something seriously wrong with your reasoning.
When they say they care about children and also protect the pedophiles that prey on them, then the time has come for you to examine yourself and your religion. Perhaps your religion is straying from the truth. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to go with the flow, or are you going to make your reservations known? By the way, if you choose to go with the flow, you will remain in good standing with the organization. However, if you choose to make your reservations known, you will be disfellowshipped.
-
27
How can I ever leave this cult?
by Julia Orwell ini've been out nearly two years but it's not out of me.
i am on school holidays now til february so i thought without work to worry about i can come off my medication.
i phased it slowly, starting in early november to avoid the physical side effects of coming down.
-
-
Vidqun
Hi Julia, good to hear from you. Do yourself a favor and try to seperate your meds regimen from the cult and its activities. Do not go off your meds completely. That's always a bad idea, not only for you but also for your loved ones. See your doctor and with his consent experiment by taking less, even halving the dose, until you find a middle course: minimum side-effects, maximun functionality. Unfortunately we are not be able to help those on the inside, until they decide to help themselves. Keep in mind, they believe they are God's gift to humanity, and that their ways are superior. So, in a very warped and twisted way they think they are doing good. We can only sympathize with them.
-
75
Media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from ABC News New York
by Londo111 inhttp://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
-
-
Vidqun
I'm with you there Phizzy. A literal interpretation of the two-witness rule means all the wrongdoer/criminal has to do is get rid of the witness(es), then his home scot-free. Ah, now we know where the witness protection program comes from.
-
75
Media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from ABC News New York
by Londo111 inhttp://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
-
-
Vidqun
Johnamos, let's take the Conti case as an example. This wonderful brother offers to take the (9 year old) girl on fieldservice. Those taking the lead in the group, agrees, while knowing this person has molested his daughter. As Conti testified, her parents was undergoing marital difficulties at the time. True, they cannot be excused, but neither should the molester or elders or Branch Office be excused for their role in the matter. And this is what the courtcase is about, about culpability. Could the elders have prevented the situation? I think so.
-
75
Media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from ABC News New York
by Londo111 inhttp://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.
see last item:.
"media request to record/broadcast oral argument; from abc news new york".
-
-
Vidqun
Johnamos, that is because child molestation amongst the Witnesses has been swept under the rug by the Society for many years. These instructions, not to report it to the authorities, have come down from the top, and has been enforced by CO's and elders alike. If you follow the different courtcases and the threads of Barbara Anderson, you will be enlightened as to the facts. Now, at last, the pigeons have come to roost. Somewhat too late for those young lives that have been destroyed, by timeously nevertheless!