Posts by Vidqun

10

PESHER: an Historic scheme of INTERPRETING SCRIPTURE. . . Watchtower style!

by TerryWalstrom in

george bernard shaw said: no man ever believes that the bible means what it says.

he is always convinced that it says what he means.. shaw must have had pesher in mind!

but, what is pesher?.

Vidqun

I studied the Aramaic word for "interpretation" not too long ago. Here's what a famous dictionary and wordbook had to say concerning the subject, for those interested in the finer detail.

Interpretation. Arm. pishra’ Da 2:24f.30 4:15 5:17. peshar*: Heb. pashêr < Arm. (Wagner 239); in JArm. pishrâ’ it may mean “meaning” (DSS, see Dalman Wb. 355b; Beyer Arm. Texte 672); Akk. piṡru(m) interpretation, solution, meaning; cf. piṡertu(m) which may mean magical solution (AHw. 868b); Syr. p’sub`esûaµraµ may mean solution, explanation (Brockelmann Lexicon 614b); CPArm., pl. *pṡwryn explanation (Schulthess Lex. 165a); Mnd. pisëra exorcism (Drower-M. Dictionary 372b); Sam. (Cowley Samaritan Liturgy 2: lxvii; see also Wagner 239); Bauer-Leander BArm. 183j; the same in the cstr.: det. See HALOT.

At Dan. 2:45 the angel would furnish “the very interpretation of matters.” Aram. pisherîn. Hebr. peshar: interpretation (of a dream). The noun is used once, in Hebrew, Eccl 8:1, of interpretation in general. The word became a standard introduction to the exegetical sentences in the commentaries written in Qumran. See TWOT.

23

The Bible's approval of slavery (including Jesus)

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

how can there possibly be a reason for this?

smh.

i can't imagine how this is excusable..

Vidqun

As a religious reformer, Jesus did introduce change. The principles he stood for were clear: You must love God with everything you've got, and you must love your neighbor as yourself. I think that's quite clear.

23

The Bible's approval of slavery (including Jesus)

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

how can there possibly be a reason for this?

smh.

i can't imagine how this is excusable..

Vidqun

Village Idiot, I disagree. If you attempted to liberate a Roman slave, and you would have been prosecuted according to Roman Law. Slaves, resisting their masters, were punished by death.

By using a metaphor, doesn't mean you like or approve of something. Jesus' teaching methods include parables and metaphors of everyday things. E.g., by using current agricultural methods in his metaphors and parables do not mean he approved of such techniques. He often included the habits of the Pharisees in his teaching. We know what he thought of them and their man-made rules.

50

My mother says I should just DA already.

by Julia Orwell in

cut the cord.

sever all ties.

start new.. and she's right.

Vidqun

Sorry to hear of your cat. That's enough to make anyone depressed. I, personally, am better off not associating with Witnesses at all because they are so close-minded, and compartementalized (meetings, field service, conventions). Do not forget the constant judging, the conditions, worldly individuals, as well as their brothers and sisters. This alone is enough to drive anyone round the bend. But here you'll have to decide what's best for you. You are fortunate in not having family in, which simplifies matters. And the question is: Did you have real JW friends? I for one, had none. I am all for continuing the counselling, even if the person is not an expert in cults. Speaking about your problems to a neutral individual is always beneficial. And remember, you and your husband are a team. Going together can only strengthen the bond between you.

23

The Bible's approval of slavery (including Jesus)

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

how can there possibly be a reason for this?

smh.

i can't imagine how this is excusable..

Vidqun

Don't get me wrong. I don't condone slavery at all. But at the same time, I do enjoy studying history. As I have said before, you cannot compare the situation in the first century with conditions today. We live in a different epoch. Firstly, Jesus was not a social reformer, but a religious reformer (Jewry > inclusive; Christianity > universal). Yes, even a slave could become a Christian, which was unusual at the time. Secondly, if Christianity opposed the slave trade during the Roman period, they would have been wiped out. Thirdly, history tells us that the slave trade was only abolished fairly recently, about three or four hundred years ago, with Abraham Lincoln and Co. Would one now condemn all those before the American Constitution was written because they allowed the slave trade to continue? The slave trade might have been abolished then, but as we all know, discrimination would continue to be rife until the time of Martin Luther King. In fact, in the US the policing and legal systems still discriminate against blacks, as the recent social upheavals indicate. And surprise, surprise, the slave trade is still going strong, even though outlawed by most countries.

114

What is truth?

by Heisenberg in

jw
friends

well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

Vidqun

By the way, I found this little gem, while looking up those scriptures JWs use to disfellowship people. Have you heard of Hymenaeus and Philetus? Paul ordered these men to be shunned. Why? They have deviated from the truth by saying "the resurrection has already occurred." Now where have we heard that before? I'll give you a clue. It has been asserted that this has been happening since 1919. Here's the quote:

15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.

16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness,

17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number.

18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. (2Ti 2:15-18 NWT)

114

What is truth?

by Heisenberg in

jw
friends

well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

Vidqun

Heisenberg, thanks for explaining to us your opinion of JW-UN membership. I wish I can dismiss their little mistakes so easily. I am not as forgiving. I live by the motto: You either practice what you preach, or you shut up. Interestingly, Awake-articles from that era glorified the UN, so they must have made some sort of a deal with the UN. Or is it a case of: You cannot belong to the UN as a NGO if you write bad things about them in your literature.

So much for that little mistake. Perhaps you can explain to us the involvement of the JWs with the OSCE? Go to the OSCE's website and see what type of organization it is. The different JW associations are NGOs of the OSCE. JW representatives give talks at OSCE meetings. All for the good of the brothers, of course. And the theocratic warfare-principle allows them to lie about it without blinking or blushing. What a happifying people!

Just a pity if one of the R&F becomes a member of a political party or an organization (like the Y.M.C.A.) that person is disfellowshipped if unrepentant. I see some double standards here, don't you?

114

What is truth?

by Heisenberg in

jw
friends

well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

Vidqun

Richard, you're right. The Catholic Church and the Witnesses are notorious for their cover-ups. But as had been mentioned here often, because these things are kept secret, the children of JWs are not safe. If you follow Barbara Anderson on Silent Lambs you will realize the extent of the problem. Why? Because most cases are handled internally, they are never sorted out and the victims do not get the necessary counselling or treatment - thus no closure. When they grow up, they will realize what had happened to them, and they will certainly detest the perpetrator as well as those that protected him/her, and rightly so (cf. Mark 9:42).

Acts 15:28 answers your question. "for the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things..." Amongst the necessary things, they would have included the two-witness rule, if it was that important.

That's the difference between a law and a principle. A law must be kept to the letter, whereas a principle should guide one to do what is right when applicable. Certainly it would be advantageous for a second witness to be present, but in the majority of cases there is no second witness. That's where Forensics come in: physical evidence, DNA testing, evaluation of psychologists and psychiatrists, etc.

Unfortunately, the authorities also make mistakes, but their approach is progressive. They follow and apply the findings of the best in the field. They appoint people with the necessary qualifications to do the job. Contrast that to the doings and teachings of the Witnesses. These are stagnant, like the rotton water of a rancid pond, not fit for drinking at all.

51

Is this a discussion forum or a debating forum , which is it ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

do you get confused sometimes whether this site is a discussion forum or a debating forum ?.

just asking.

whats your thoughts.. smiddy.

Vidqun

Thanks Smiddy for the thread. Quite interesting to read eveyone's take on the subject. Terry, thanks for your contribution. Good manners rule! Not only what you say, but how you say it. I also second Blondie's contribution. Discussion - Dialogue - Debate. In a perfect world that would be the answer, similar to the debates on BBC, sometimes heated, yet civilized.

114

What is truth?

by Heisenberg in

jw
friends

well, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.

i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.

they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.

Vidqun

Richard, why is it that churches in general do not fall back on the two-witness rule? First of all, it is part of the Mosaic Law, which had been cancelled by Jesus (cf. Col. 2:13, 14). Secondly, if you look at the context where it was used by both Jesus and Paul, you will see that it has nothing to do with crime, especially pedophilia. Here’s the scriptures. Note the context:

15 Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.

(Mat 18:15-16 NWT)

11 I have become unreasonable. YOU compelled me to, for I ought to have been recommended by YOU. For I did not prove to be inferior to [YOUR] superfine apostles in a single thing, even if I am nothing. (2Co 12:11 NWT)

20 For I am afraid that somehow, when I arrive, I may find YOU not as I could wish and I may prove to be to YOU not as YOU could wish, but, instead, there should somehow be strife, jealousy, cases of anger, contentions, backbitings, whisperings, cases of being puffed up, disorders.

21 Perhaps, when I come again, my God might humiliate me among YOU, and I might mourn over many of those who formerly sinned but have not repented over their uncleanness and fornication and loose conduct that they have practiced.

NWT 2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to YOU. At the mouth of two witnesses or of three every matter must be established.

2 I have said previously and, as if present the second time and yet absent now, I say in advance to those who have sinned before and to all the rest, that if ever I come again I will not spare,

3 since YOU are seeking a proof of Christ speaking in me, [Christ] who is not weak toward YOU but is powerful among YOU. (2Co 12:20-13:3 NWT)