Posts by Vidqun

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vidqun

Matthew 24:1-35 is exclusively about Jerusalem's judgment terminating in 70 A.D.

Vanderhoven, if I accept your version, then it means Matthew (and Jesus for that matter) lied. I'll stick to Matthew's version. Jesus' Second Coming is definitely a future event (cf. Matt. 24:29-31).

Duran, I see it differently. I follow the natural Revelation sequence in this case. Beast from the sea was first on the scene. It had a limited lifespan:

5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. (Rev. 13:5 ESV)

Note now the activities of Beast from the earth. It put up an image of Beast from the sea. In my mind that means that Beast from the sea is no more. It then gave breath to the image, the image now becoming a beast in its own right:

11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:11 ESV)
15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. (Rev. 13:15 ESV)

The new beast is identified in Rev. 17 as the scarlet-colored wild beast, i.e., Beast from the abyss.

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vidqun

Duran, Revelation has a total of three beasts: 1) Beast from the sea to rule 42 months (Rev. 13:1, 5). 2) Beast from the earth (false prophet) (13:8). 3) Beast from the abyss (scarlet-colored wild beast) (11:7; 17:3, 7, 8). Beast from the sea would have been assimilated by Beast from the abyss because Jesus would dispatch only two at Amageddon, namely Beast from the abyss and the false prophet (19:19, 20).

So, how will we know when the great tribulation begins? When everybody is able to see the signs:

11 There will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and pestilences. And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.
25 "And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26 people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (Lk. 21:11, 25-26 ESV)

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vidqun

I believe Matthew's chronological sequence to be accurate. First "the great tribulation," then the Second Coming:

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. (Matt. 24:21-22 ESV)

Nothing to do with the siege of Jerusalem:

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. (Matt. 24:29-32 ESV)

Note the parable of the fig tree. The great tribulation will be accompanied by many signs:

30 "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (Joel 2:30-31 ESV)

This is confirmed by Revelation:

12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood,
13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale.
14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Rev. 6:12-14 ESV)

41

Is Watchtower totally off base on Armageddon?

by Vanderhoven7 in

to me it is quite evident that the gt spoken about in matthew 24, mark 13 and luke 21 is a one time, non-repeatable localized event resulting in the destruction of jerusalem and the temple followed by the dispersion of surviving jews throughout the nations.. however, what is not so clear to most is that the gt of revelation deals with the same event.

my understanding is that the gb of jehovah witnesses has no clue as to how to interpret the apocalyptic messages found both in the synoptics and revelation.

but steve greg has armageddon down pat.

Vidqun

I view it differently. Here's a few criticisms:

1) There’s no temple in heaven (Rev. 21:22). When John mentions the symbolic “sanctuary” in a heavenly setting, he refers to the tabernacle sanctuary (16:5). The following is God’s new earthly temple, made up with living stones (1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22).

2) Dual prophecy: "Quite a few Bible prophecies have been designed with a dual message, thus having a double meaning and fulfillment. Most famous of these must be the composite sign of Jesus’ end time prophecy, which deals with the conclusion of the Jewish system, yet corresponds to his parousia at the conclusion of the present system (cf. Matt. 24, 25; Mark 13; Luke 21)." E.g., "kingdom against kingdom" and "the great tribulation": “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be” (Matt. 24:7, 21 ESV). The Jews had a bad time in Jerusalem, but not that bad.

3) Armageddon is between God and “the kings of the whole world.” Megiddo is therefore a world situation and not a place (cf. Joel 3:2).

4) So I view the scorching sun, hunger and tears as things associated with the earth, not heaven, i.e., the new earth in whatever form it takes (Rev. 7:16, 17).

5) The beasts are political entities, i.e., kingdoms or empires, in Daniel, as well as Revelation.

6) The seven trumpet blasts and seven plagues are indeed God's judgments, but in connection with the whole world (cf. Luke 21:35). This is the coming "great tribulation," which should be distinguished from the Day of the LORD and Amageddon (cf. Matt. 24:29-31), to follow.

39

Jehovah's Witness Governing Body, (New Light Division) Are Vegetable Oils not more important than Beards?

by was a new boy in

'use vegetable oil and soft margarine in place of animal fat,'.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101997444?q=vegetable+oil&p=par.

'when possible, cook with unsaturated vegetable oils.'.

Vidqun

1. Unnatural Extraction Process: Unlike coconut or olive oil, which can be extracted through pressing, seed oils like canola, soybean, and corn oil require unnatural methods for extraction. They undergo processes involving high heat and chemical solvents like petroleum, leading to oxidation and the formation of trans fats even before they reach your kitchen.

2. A Modern Dietary Addition: Industrial seed oils are a recent addition to our diet, exploding in consumption from virtually zero in the early 1900s to 70 lbs per year per person today. This dramatic increase corresponds with a surge in chronic health issues, suggesting a link between seed oil consumption and modern diseases.

3. Omega-6 and Inflammation: Vegetable oils are high in Omega-6 fatty acids, especially linoleic acid, which is a precursor to pro-inflammatory eicosanoids. These molecules can cause chronic inflammation and contribute to autoimmune diseases. The excessive consumption of Omega-6, without the balance of Omega-3, exacerbates these health issues.

4. Oxidative Stress and Cancer: Studies have shown that diets high in vegetable oils, particularly linoleic acid, lead to oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and genetic damage. These factors are instrumental in promoting cancer, with some studies revealing a fourfold increase in metastasis in diets high in these oils.

5. Increased Mortality Rate: Over a seven-year study, groups consuming high amounts of vegetable oil had a 62% greater all-cause mortality rate compared to those with lower consumption. This risk increase is more significant than that associated with heavy smoking or obesity.

6. Heart Disease Risk: The Minnesota Coronary Experiment found that participants who increased their intake of corn oil and margarine had an 86% higher incidence of heart attacks. Despite lower cholesterol levels, the vegetable oil group had a significantly higher mortality rate from heart attacks.

7. Cardiovascular Deaths: The MARGARIN Study revealed that the group consuming margarine high in linoleic acid from vegetable oils had a 700% higher rate of strokes, heart attacks, and cardiovascular deaths compared to a group consuming Omega-3-rich fish oil. This stark difference underscores the health risks of high vegetable oil consumption. Remember, the key to a healthier life is understanding what you're putting into your body. Rethink your oil choices and opt for natural, minimally processed fats.

37

The evidence that fluoride lowers IQ is stronger than what was thought

by What-A-Coincidence in

fluoride action network.

http://www.fluoridealert.org.

fan bulletin 997: new video: vyvyan howard's toronto presentation.

Vidqun

Here's an update:

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/government-report-links-high-fluoride-exposure-low-iq-among-children

15

The Good News Is: The Great-Crowd-Of-Other-Sheep Do Not Exist

by Sea Breeze in

the watchtower conflates two different groups into one fictional church-age group that according to the watchtower, are saved by works and faith/membership in the jehovah witness organization.

according to watchtower, only the now mostly dead 144k receive the promises of god regarding justification .

everbody else missed the boat and must work for their justification for a thousand years.

Vidqun

Sea Breeze, slight problem with your exegesis. There is no temple in heaven (cf. Rev. 21:22). So the great crowd would be from the perspective of those on the "new earth" (2 Pet. 3:13; cf. Is. 66:1). They will be protected from things associated with the earth, e.g., hunger, sun, heat, etc. By the way, the Israel of God is the new temple (Gal. 6:15, 16; cf. 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22).

Well now, for the "rapture," this will be taking place after the tribulation (cf. Matt. 24:29-31). Paul explained that you cannot expect a price, if you do not run the race (2 Tim. 2:5; cf. 1 Cor. 9:24, 25). A pre-tribulation "rapture" only happen in the movies.

35

Re-activate me?

by punkofnice in

there was a knock at my door and i thought it was my take-away being delivered.. long story short, it was 2 elders calling to see me.

i guess to re-activate me.

once they said who they were i recognised them.

Vidqun

FragrantAddendum, sorry to hear of you problems. I am thankful not to have immediate family in the "truth" anymore. That simplifies matters for me. They must hate you very much, for speaking the truth, perhaps? Sounds like you wanted to burn down the Kingdom Hall. Perhaps you should've burnt down the Hall then they would have a good reason to hate you. What a horrible lot!

35

Re-activate me?

by punkofnice in

there was a knock at my door and i thought it was my take-away being delivered.. long story short, it was 2 elders calling to see me.

i guess to re-activate me.

once they said who they were i recognised them.

Vidqun

My aunt houses a missionary couple, working (surfing?) where the need is great. I knew his family. He was about 10 at the time. Yesterday he cornered me to tell me that they care and they want me to come back (reactivation?). By the way, I was kicked out because I did not agree with many things they taught.

Sorry, Punky, I'm not as nice as you. First of all, they keep on telling friends and family that it was my choice (for being disfellowshipped). So I went to great lengths to explain to him the difference between disfellowshipping and disassociation. When you are disfellowshipped ("removed") you had no say in the matter. The three elders have the last say. So I would appreciate if they stopped lying.

We touched on the UN, lack of love, empathy and compassion, also the gene therapy program and of course the governing body. He exclaimed "the faithful and discreet slave" would never do or say anything to hurt or disadvantage the brothers.

Well, it was the wrong thing to say to me. First slave group to rule and judge their fellow slaves. Perhaps they should have sticked to dishing out (spiritual) food. Then I encouraged him to carry on reading those verses and see what happens when the slave becomes wicked.

I wanted him to fetch his Bible so we can discuss Rom. 14:1, but he declined. Weird that JWs these days would not want to reason from the Bible. As though they are not very sure of their beliefs. Guess there's no chance of me losing my "removed" status. I thanked him and reassured him "all's well that ends well." I will keep the peace and remain as I am.

14

How Much Damage Would You Assess?

by Sea Breeze in

just as there is no such thing as a christian who worships satan, there is no such thing as a christian outside of the new covenant “for the forgiveness of sins”.

and he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, drink ye all of it, for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

- mt.

Vidqun

Sea Breeze, in a similar vein, the basis of judgment, if you live on the dark side, you condemn yourself. John explains: "For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked." He adds: “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day” (John 3:17-21; 12:47, 48 ESV).