so was your congo affluent & connected enough to have a "bethel speaker"?.
at least one congo in our area had one.
om.
Barbara,
Thank you for that perspective. That was truly food for thought. I guess in our pain sometimes, we forget that those at Bethel are as much under mind control as we were. However, these were sincere folks who thought they were pleasing God and made many sacrifices out of devotion.
kool-aid man, is your plan to protest the memorial still in play?
are you mia?.
I had to go to a meeting, therefore I did not give a well-thought out reply to Mouthy. I have tried rereading my post, for I feel it was heavily misconstrued to mean that the 1990 protest involved Rick and the people shouted at us, and so forth. I am not seeing that in the text, but I am only seeing what I intended to say and not the best judge.
Of course, as I've said, it is a matter of viewpoint. If you identify with the protestor, what occurs might seem reasonable and respectful. If you identify with the one protested again, it is viewed as the very opposite. It invokes fear and fear colors perception. But, hopefully, you do see the conundrum? The protest did not win me over, but rather did just the opposite.
I remember one Bethelite, who was a friend of the person who I came with, complained about the noise level. Therefore, it couldn't have been that quite. Of course, was this the Cetnar protest? Or perhaps I observed another group?
Again, from your viewpoint it might have been quite and peaceful. However, to an 18-year-old shy kid from the country being in the Big City for the first time, it was rather frightful to see. And no, I certainly was not the disrespectful sort of person, who stuck my tongue out at people. I never have been.
Now as regard to the Memorial protest, it seems like a carnival sideshow, especially done in the loud and brash sensationalism that seems to be the Six Screen's style. It will win nobody. In fact, I feel it will just scare Witnesses closer into the Organization. And anything that drives those I love further into the cult…well, I have a real problem with that.
Again, what won me and others like me over? It was certainly the opposite of such protests.
kool-aid man, is your plan to protest the memorial still in play?
are you mia?.
Alas, lying is not my intention. My comment about loud and brash was directed to the Memorial demonstrations.
In regard in the demonstration I witnessed in 1990, perhaps it was quite and peaceful from the participant's viewpoint. But to a Witness, it looked quite threatening. As I passed through the crowd, everyone started saying, "We love you!" Well, I thought that was quite creepy to have strangers saying that to me.
kool-aid man, is your plan to protest the memorial still in play?
are you mia?.
Mouthy,
I remember visiting Brooklyn Bethel in 1990 and it being surrounded by protestors and having to walk through them. Being a quite and mild young man, very shy and unassuming, these protests frightened me and it only was a reaffirmation to me that the Society had the 'truth'.
I believe the percentage of people helped by protests to be low. By and large, quietly working and defying stereotypes is the best way to help Witnesses. I believe that Brother Franz had some great wisdom regarding this and his two books show a much way forward. I can only imagine him looking down from heaven and shaking his head at these loud and brash demonstrations. If those like Rick and others imitated his quite and mild example, they would help a greater number.
Also, Rick played fast and loose with the facts--something I found quite distasteful. It was obvious that Johnny the Bethelite was a fraud and yet he was tolerated, even endorsed. If we want to help Witnesses, we must be spotless when it comes to honesty. One misstep in regard to this, will only affirm to them that the former Witnesses are all foaming at the mouth with lies, half-truths, and misrepresentations. Our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees.
it seems fitting to use my 1,914th post to address a doctrine that has shaped the lives of so many of us, and which continues to be a cornerstone belief that is used to keep individual jehovahs witnesses trapped in servitude to a man-made corporation.. .
that said, we might well ask who started it all?
we might say russell, who borrowed heavily from the millerite teachings of the second adventists in advocating a chronology that included the year 1914. as we know, when we research early witness literature we realise that the year 1914 featured in russell's chronology only as the end of a series of events culminating in armageddon, and not the beginning of christ's presence.
A very fitting and sobering post, Cedars.
Correct me if my memory is failing me, but hadn't the Archduke's driver, Leopold, not taken a wrong turn into an alley, forcing him to back up, then Gavrilo Princip would have never seized the opportunity. That must count for the worst traffic mistake in history!
and what man or men am i supposed to be obedient to?.
and who is rendering accounts without talking to me first?.
go ahead!
N.drew: I will have to contemplate what you said some more. I agree that Christians need to be led by Holy Spirit.
Irondork: I believe everybody is entitled to the b elief or philosophy that works for them. Goodness knows, after being chewed up and spit out by the elders, I flirted with agnostism myself for a time until Brother Franz's books reintroduced me to Christianity. So I can understand how someone might veer into a path away from theism altoghether. However-- it is the tone I find distasteful. Sometimes it seems the JW theology was chucked, but the JW dogmatism remained behind.
and what man or men am i supposed to be obedient to?.
and who is rendering accounts without talking to me first?.
go ahead!
N.drew: Alas, I wasn't referring to your posts.
and what man or men am i supposed to be obedient to?.
and who is rendering accounts without talking to me first?.
go ahead!
Thanks, Greybeard.
As for some of the other answers, I am reminded why I post here less and less.
i've published part one of a three part series about the menlo park kh scandal.
http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-1.
this has been a tough one for me.. the original federal case was dismissed in january.
A large dedicated legal department.
heard a new rumor that:.
the borg is going to phase out big district assemblies - so they can fit 'em in assembly halls.. they will reduce the size of circuits.
they will synchronize c.o.
What was the source of the rumor?
