Technically...some might point to Judges 3:15 and 1 Samuel 23:5. Of course, even though both Ehud and David were saviors, they wouldn't have been so if it hadn't been for the ultimate Source of such saving.
Londo111
JoinedPosts by Londo111
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39
Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture
by GOrwell innow, this topic is not about providing proof of the trinity using the nwt, but is instead about the deity of jesus.
yes, they are similar, but different, topics.. specifically, we can use the nwt to show the deity of jesus and how the people/authors of his day viewed who he was.
this bible quotation won't even come from the fallback jesus-is-god book of john, but instead comes from the book of luke.
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Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture
by GOrwell innow, this topic is not about providing proof of the trinity using the nwt, but is instead about the deity of jesus.
yes, they are similar, but different, topics.. specifically, we can use the nwt to show the deity of jesus and how the people/authors of his day viewed who he was.
this bible quotation won't even come from the fallback jesus-is-god book of john, but instead comes from the book of luke.
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Londo111
As far as interpretations of Luke 18:19 and Mark 10:18...and whether Jesus was good: Jesus always directed glory to His Father, the Ultimate Source of goodness, out of whom all goodness flows--but goodness flows always through his Son.
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Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture
by GOrwell innow, this topic is not about providing proof of the trinity using the nwt, but is instead about the deity of jesus.
yes, they are similar, but different, topics.. specifically, we can use the nwt to show the deity of jesus and how the people/authors of his day viewed who he was.
this bible quotation won't even come from the fallback jesus-is-god book of john, but instead comes from the book of luke.
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Londo111
Oops--my apologies! Luke 18:19...of course Mark is a parallel account, so it's all good. :)
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Proof of Jesus' Deity using the NWT - One Simple Scripture
by GOrwell innow, this topic is not about providing proof of the trinity using the nwt, but is instead about the deity of jesus.
yes, they are similar, but different, topics.. specifically, we can use the nwt to show the deity of jesus and how the people/authors of his day viewed who he was.
this bible quotation won't even come from the fallback jesus-is-god book of john, but instead comes from the book of luke.
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Londo111
I've yet to make up my mind or even understand this doctrine...and even if I came to believe every aspect of it, I wouldn't be too dogmatic about it. I am done with dogma…as long as a Christian believes Jesus is God's Son that would be what I would hold as more important than the finer points of what his godhood means. Even more weighty: following Christ's teachings in one's daily life. The rest, to me, is a tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumin.
But in regard to the Gospel of Luke, if we turn two chapters to Luke 10:18: 'Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.'
So whereas, one might use Luke 8:39 to prove that Jesus is God Almighty, some might use Luke 10:18 to prove that Jesus is not God Almighty.
Of course, people in both camps might end up disregarding everything Jesus taught between those two verses, and for that matter, before and after these verses. The most important thing about Luke 8:26-39, is what can we learn from our Exemplar in this account with the demon-possessed man--how can we do the same toward others in our daily life?
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October 1st 2011 WT - Five Lies About God Exposed!
by RayPublisher inthis is a good one...definitely a keeper.. .
few experiences hurt more than learning that someone you trust has lied to you.
you might feel humiliated, angry, or even betrayed.
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Londo111
What I find striking is the similarity in thought with the above link from the life story of former Witnesses Jeff and Kathy Schwehm, "How many of you have ever been deceived? Has anyone ever lied to you? Has your parents, Pastor, or best friend ever lied to you? How did you feel? Were you devastated? Did you ask them why they had deceived you and were their explanations less than satisfactory?"
Compare this to what is found in the opening article of this Watchtower, "FEW experiences hurt more than learning that someone you trust has lied to you. You might feel humiliated, angry, or even betrayed... You might hesitate even to consider the possibility that you have been lied to about God. What you know may have come from someone whom you trust and who would never intentionally hurt you—your parents, a priest, a pastor, or a close friend. You may have believed a certain teaching all your life."
And what is interesting is that the last article in the magazine is " When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? PART ONE" And the whole 607 BCE teaching, upon which is of critical importance to the 1914 doctrine, was a lie I've believed almost all my life.
Does anyone else find this odd or is it my imagination?
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What are the best Bible Translations?
by Londo111 ingrowing up in a jw family, my parents and my grandparents had many versions of the bible...not just the new world translation.
sometimes i read these.
but i always bought the hype that the new world translation was the most unbiased and most consistent in rendering hebrew and greek into the modern language.
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Londo111
When I was a Witness, I really did enjoy the Reference Bible, and constantly read the footnotes where alternative renderings were shown, but I never gave these as much weight. And on occasion, I used the Interlinear. Of course, I didn't always put the pieces together and didn't know where the bias subtly crept in. Some things bugged me, but I kept those things to myself.
I would hate for this thread to devolve into a debate over whether the Bible is worth reading at all, whether is has any divine inspiration behind it, how much it changed since the original manuscripts are lost to history, or various schools of thought over the afterlife, or what the divinity of the Logos means, ect… After so many years of rigid dogma, I try to keep my mind open to all possibilities about the existence or nature of God, Jesus, and the Bible. I feel that no matter what, the Sermon of the Mount, the parables such as the Prodigal Son, and things like these, are lessons to live by. As Gandhi indicated, if everyone strived to live up to these goals, the world would be a better place.
As far as differing ancient manuscripts go, some have said the Septuagint was the best translation of the Old Testament, because it reflected the understanding better than translating directly from the later Masoretic text, or even the Dead Sea Scrolls. There seem to be obvious differences, but of course, we do not have the complete Septuagint any longer. Then again, maybe the Septuagint was biased from the start.
Now--for a good example of why I feel knowledge of ancient Hebrew is important, take Jeremiah 29:10. The NWT translation says, "at Babylon" whereas other modern translations say "for Babylon". Some say that it can be translated either way. But I did read that the spatial sense "at" is impossible.
Or--for an example of why rendering consistently is important as well as a lack of bias, take how the New World Translation translates 'according to houses' in Acts 2:46 as "in private homes", but at Acts 5:42 and Acts 20:20, "house to house."
As a Witness I was fully aware of all the proof texts for and against such doctrines of the say, the Trinity, as well as how different translations rendered such verses, and I often checked the Interlinear. I am now more open minded to all possibilities, of course. But I feel that sometimes it is the subtleties of translation from which millions get ensnared by more modern traditions of men.
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What are the best Bible Translations?
by Londo111 ingrowing up in a jw family, my parents and my grandparents had many versions of the bible...not just the new world translation.
sometimes i read these.
but i always bought the hype that the new world translation was the most unbiased and most consistent in rendering hebrew and greek into the modern language.
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Londo111
I use Biblegateway quite frequently, but I am hoping for a single translation to be able to pick up in my hands and read in print.
While the writers themselves were perceived of as 'unlettered and ordinary', I feel translators most knowledgeable in ancient Hebrew and Greek languages would best render the text as intended.
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What are the best Bible Translations?
by Londo111 ingrowing up in a jw family, my parents and my grandparents had many versions of the bible...not just the new world translation.
sometimes i read these.
but i always bought the hype that the new world translation was the most unbiased and most consistent in rendering hebrew and greek into the modern language.
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Londo111
Growing up in a JW family, my parents and my grandparents had many versions of the Bible…not just the New World Translation. Sometimes I read these. But I always bought the hype that the New World Translation was the most unbiased and most consistent in rendering Hebrew and Greek into the modern language.
But more and more I can see this is not the case. Still, I find myself constantly using the New World Translation, because for parts of four decades, it has been the one I was most comfortable reading and understanding. But I feel the need to explore other alternatives. Some translations I have picked up have obviously come from a translator with a doctrinal bias…maybe that is just my years of WTS programming. I want to reread the Bible again, this time, unclouded by WTS dogma. True, comparing many translations is the way to go, but it would be quite costly if I wanted to have these in print.
It is obvious to me that where the NWT renders a word 'Earth', as in the sense of the globe or planet, 'land' is more often the obvious meaning in many cases. However, I do like the idea of rendering words like Sheol and Hades consistently. And while I did come to feel a tinge uncomfortable with the NWT's stance on putting Jehovah in the New Testament where there was no evidence for it, rendering a version of YHWH where it appeared in the original manuscript in Hebrew did make sense.
So…what modern translations are the best? Which are free from preconceived doctrines? Which have the most consistent renderings? Which have the most accredited translators who know ancient Hebrew and Greek? (ie NOT one college dropout with a two-year degree in only one of the Biblical languages)
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Outright Misrepresentations of Quotes and Citations in Watchtower Literature
by Londo111 inthe research of doug mason, annomaly, and others have been eye opening in regards to the society's recent articles on 607 bc.
what i find most disturbing is the misrepresentations of scholars, who are quoted in such a way to say one thing, when they meant something completely different.
it is one thing to teach a doctrine, and quite another to play fast and loose with the truth.
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Londo111
Now that I hit 'submit', I now see all the typos in the above post. My apologies for the lack of proofreading. I guess I am just flabbergasted that I, a person with lots of social anxiety, was forced to bother people at their homes for almost four decades based on these verses.
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Outright Misrepresentations of Quotes and Citations in Watchtower Literature
by Londo111 inthe research of doug mason, annomaly, and others have been eye opening in regards to the society's recent articles on 607 bc.
what i find most disturbing is the misrepresentations of scholars, who are quoted in such a way to say one thing, when they meant something completely different.
it is one thing to teach a doctrine, and quite another to play fast and loose with the truth.
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Londo111
Here is a point I just learned from In Search of Christian Freedom by Brother Raymond Franz. I thought I would share it here, for while maybe not a misrepresentations an inconsistency. I was always taught that the New World Translation was consistent in its rendering and bias free.
If you have the Kingdom Interlinear handy, compare Acts 2:46 and Acts 5:42. The phrase translated as "door to door" in 5:42, is translated as "in private homes" in 2:46.
If we say early Christians preached from house to house in a consecutive manner, then they must have also taken their meals from house to house in a consecutive manner.
But if it means 'private homes', that makes Paul's words in Acts 20:20 more logical, for he was saying that he taught both publicly and privately.
Thus there does not seem to be "door to door" command or precedent for Christians. The New World Translation, by its inconsistency, seems to hide that fact.