Londo111

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Posts by Londo111

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  12

  The curious case of the 2012 year text foundation watchtower article

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i had to write some text about my observations at last sunday's watchtower study... .

  the curious case of the 2012 year text watchtower article.

  the march 4 study article of the watchtower lay the foundations of the 2012 year text of jehovah's witnesses: "your word is truth.

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  Londo111

  The logic of this article: 2 + 2 = eggplant
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  36

  Memorial Partakers guesses?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the last four years:.

  with all the changes in the 'generation', 'sealing', doctines, etc.

  - there have been unexpected [i imagine] jumps in this number.

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  Londo111

  Keep in mind that bats in the belfry was joking...We wouldn't want to show or quote this to a believing Witness, telling them this was an actual letter from the Society. It would be quite counterproductive.
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  17

  When...JERUSALEM DESTROYED?” PART TWO - c.o.Jonsson

  by diamondiiz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://kristenfrihet.se/vtsvar/vtsvar2.pdf.

  i loved part 1 by jonsson so this one should be great read as well..

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  Londo111

  BTTT (for new folks, pay no attention to the resident messiah...)
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  42

  Onscreen Critique, NOVEMBER 1 Watchtower, "When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i have produced a critique of the november 1, 2011 watchtower article, when was ancient jerusalem destroyed?

  part 2: what the clay documents really show.. .

  this critique is designed to be read on a computer screen.. .

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  Londo111

  BTTT.
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  36

  Memorial Partakers guesses?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the last four years:.

  with all the changes in the 'generation', 'sealing', doctines, etc.

  - there have been unexpected [i imagine] jumps in this number.

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  Londo111

  I assume bats in the belfry was joking with a fake letter?

  BTW--I wonder how many will be partaking secretly? I know of two.
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  8

  Watchtower Study today

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today i attended the watchtower study in the local hall.

  a strange article.

  1) the article could say how the apostles and elders handled theologic problems.

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  Londo111

  I don't know how the Governing Body can print things like yesterday's lesson and still sleep at night. Have they not excommunicated people for standing up for the Bible? Are they not brimming with extra-biblical tradition and doctrine? If they are going to embrace their 'spiritual ancestors' why not bring up William Miller? I notice they gloss over the Second Adventists roots and the fact that the early Bible Students sitting around studying in the 1870's were all Adventists.
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  33

  When Someone You Love Is Removed As An Elder!

  by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  last week we lost a wonderful elder (removed, stepped down is what i will believe) , this man was as real, as you can get.

  he loved the sheep,.

  his eternal optimism of humanity is a rare quality in the jw religion.

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  Londo111

  Unfortunately, within the existing framework, elders cannot really do much good, especially if they still believe in the Organization. Their hands are tied. They are too busy building up their field service hours, preparing for meeting parts, getting the rank and file into service and attending meetings. Not to mention all the congregation duties they may have. Then they have to navigate within the unscriptural rules of the Flock Book and any marginal notes handed down from above.

  Stepping away from all that, and shepparding outside the straitjacket confines of that arrangement, would give them more of a chance to do real good.
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  190

  The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

  http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

  the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

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  Londo111

  Jesus, the Great Teacher, taught just as His Father taught.

  "All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable."

  "Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given."

  Those who hold to a fundamentalist view are like those who listened to Jesus and did not dig any further and missed the real lesson. Come to think of it, fundamentalists do this with even some of his obvious parables, such as the Rich Man and Lazarus--or the Sheep and the Goats (hint: if the sheep & goats are figurative, so is the fire!)
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  190

  The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

  http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

  the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

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  Londo111

  I don't have all the answers. I'm continually trying to piece these things together.

  C.S. Lewis held that homo sapiens evolved into a spiritually-minded species when God willed it, but that early humans turned away.

  Origen held that the fall occurred before the universe was. In the preexistence, we fell, by turning away from God. The purpose of the universe, he held, was to rectify this. In this way, the Lamb was slain before the founding of the world. I have heard some say that clothing Adam and Even with skins was symbolic for giving fallen souls fleshly bodies.

  One thing I think many can attest to: We are born fallen. None of us can claim perfection. We all make moral mistakes. We all have a wrestling with our more animalistic impulses. Many of us feel a spiritual need and desire a relationship with God. Christianity provides a frame of reference for some to pursue this.

  Currently, I am trying to keep an open mind and a listening ear. I gravitated from being a Witness, flirted with agnosticism, but after reading Crisis of Conscience, I began to gravitate toward Christianity again and this has provided a good sense of direction that I was lacking in the interim.

  As Paul said, "For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known." I believe only when we will all see God face to face will we have a more complete understanding.
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  190

  The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

  http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

  the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

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  Londo111

  Cedars,

  Like you, before I awakened, I was chaffing at the straightjacket the Society had put me in regarding the Adam and Even story. I just could no longer believe this was a historical account. It read like a parable. And the Paul's words at Galatians 4:24 regarding the Abraham drama kept ringing in my mind, "These things are an allegory."

  Philo, as well as some of the early Church Fathers, such as Origen, did not take Genesis account literally. I suspect that Ezra and other learned Jews did not either. I don't believe the Bible writers that redacted the Pentateuch together intended it to be taken literally.

  I recommend reading, "The Language of God", which is a book about theistic evolution from a Christian perspective. This book also references what C.S. Lewis had to say about the Fall, so perhaps exploring his perspective too might be beneficial as well. I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything from either works, but it does offer a different viewpoint.

  Upon reading the Pentateuch in the New Jerusalem Bible, along with the section notes and footnotes, Genesis finally is making more sense to me. While the Documentary Hypothesis might not be the full story as to how the Pentateuch came together, I think it is a nod in the right direction.

  There are two Creation Accounts. There are two interwoven Flood stories. There are 3 stories of a Patriarch having their wife stolen by a ruler. The Cain genealogy has parallels with the Seth genealogy. Certain themes and archetypes permeate the Pentateuch, even the Old Testament in general: the younger sibling usurps the older. The number 70 comes up quite a bit! One could go on an on.

  Personally, none of this precludes spiritual and moral lessons that are inspired by God, beneficial for teaching, reproving or setting things straight. I believe trying to force a historical reading onto something that was not meant to be historical has been very damaging to the faith of many.