all this talk about whether door to door work is fruitful or not has really got me thinking.. so i was wondering, (a) how many jw's or ex's here were actually converted on the door, and (b) how many jw's or ex's here ever obtained a convert on the door?.
i made 2 converts whilst a jw, but 1 was the son of an interested person, the other was a wayward son of a weak sister so i get a zero.. my dad worked at london heathrow as an air traffic controller, he got 6 other controllers to join up, so if you're arriving in the uk, don't fly apostasy airways!
for all his frequent bouts of vac pioneering, i don't think that he ever pulled a live one off the doors, so he gets a zero too.. my mum was quite a puller in her time but they were all friends of friends who came to sit in on bible studies etc, so, sorry mater, you get a zero also.. as a matter of fact, i'm wondering if the door to door work isn't completely pointless!.
Fourteen years (as a publisher) x 12 months x 7 hours (avg.)= 1176 hours publicly + almost always more than the 4 hours allowed to be counted for family study each month = over maybe 1500 hours and NO CONVERTS and now, actually minus ONE convert = [:l?] not an efficient method at all!
outnfree
this is sort of a connected subject to englishman's prior post.
it's a difficult subject, so i'm sorry if it upsets anyone.
but it's been on my mind for a few weeks.. i'm sure that for all of us wt "survivors" (thanks for that term, esmeralda), the idea of our funeral being used as a propagandistic sales pitch for the wt is repugnant.. but, for those of us whose family are still jw's, it's a very real possibility.
Expatbrit,
I'm with Tina that you should go see an attorney (barrister? counsellor?). Insurance agents who do estate planning tend to try to sell you annuities or some such, which are NOT the best way to go.
Most estate planning attorneys (they are specialists) in the States will give you at least a 1/2 hour free consult, some a longer time period. Since you already have most of your wishes laid out in a will, your consult could focus on the concerns you outlined above.
I take it the text of the blood card is in your will, because you've given your wife some kind of medical power of attorney?(Is your stand the same on blood anyway?) That doesn't mean she needs to be responsible for your funeral arrangments. And a well-planned estate, while costing attorney's fees up front (approx. $1500), could very well save your heirs/wife much more than that in tax savings.
But as the others have stated above: I AM NOT A LAWYER. Plus, I, too, live in the States, and estate law in Canada is likely to be different from here. I only know a real estate lawyer in Etobicoke, so you're on your own in your search. But, IMNSHO, wills are only slightly better than dying intestate.
Best,
outnfree
things have gotten desperate in the us for the borg.
they lowered the hours required by the pioneers to 70 and there was this little surge in the number of pioneers and yet there was a negative "increase" in this country.
so...desperate times call for desperate measures.
Haven't you heard, Dubs?
Witnesses NO LONGER separate sheep from goats! THAT will be done by .... Christ Jesus at his "RETURN" (not the same as his 'presence' mind you) on judgment day. Imagine!!!
But you're right about how despicable it is to prey on the vulnerable.
Keep on railing against injustice, LovesDubs, your posts are great.
outnfree
jehovah is a cool guy, helping jws to get stinking rich.. "i would like to thank my god, jehovah, for giving me the strength to compete today since you guys were a little tough on me today," said williams, who picks up a check of $330,0000.
the story can be found here:.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport/hi/english/tennis/newsid_1227000/1227575.stm
Hey! Those Williams sisters can't really be WITNESSES can they?
Wouldn't their professional tennis schedule take them away from theocratic duties?!!!
(If one just goes to http://news.bbc.co.uk/sports/hi/english/tennis
and then uses the advanced search for sports only with the quotation, you will find the article in question about Serena Williams )
outnfree
i am sort of interested to your responces if someone might ask a ?
about the jw how might you describe the jw?
would they to your personal opinion be a mind altering cult or a dangerous cult?
Definitely a mind-altering cult!
Loved the Boiled Frog analogy! EXACTLY what happens to all ensnared!
When I e-mailed a 'friend' that I had decided to disassociate myself, she wrote back (and I give her points even for that!) that she was sorry to hear that I had decided to 'leave Jehovah's family.' Imagine that! I almost wrote back to tell her that I was not leaving Jehovah's, that I still believed I was one of His children, I didn't though for 2 reasons:
1/ She likely wouldn't read a second post from me and I had explained
in the original that I still had love for God and His Son.
2/ It was obvious she had fallen for the Organization=Jehovah God
line. As His mouthpiece, if I left the Society, I was leaving
my Heavenly Father and, by extension, his 'family'.
Is that the epitome of the "we're special, there's no one else like us?" attitude that is a prominent cult quality?
Then, last week, when I was chatting with a neighbor and telling her that I really felt that the Witnesses were a mind-control cult, my son overheard me. "Do you really think Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, Mom?" "Yes, xxxxx, I really do." His reaction? "KEWL! I was in a CULT!!!!"
Not something I'M proud of !
Thank God (and friends) I'm
outnfree
my first birthday celebration.
by kristen 4/5/01.
having been brought up in the organization since age 3, the only memory of a birthday celebration i had was an old photograph of when i was 2. in front of the camera was my sister and i, with a cake baked in a regular rectangle cake pan, frosted, and with two candles sitting on top.
Happy Belated Birthday, Kristen!
and may you have many more.
This past Christmas instead of sitting on the sidelines being the photographer (which was the only role I'd let myself have because I was the only JW in the house) I actually received gifts from everyone in my household. I, like you, was not yet officially gone from the organization, but my family knew that emotionally I had cut the ties, and thus reacted. Also, I went Christmas shopping for the kids with my husband for the first time in 10 years!)
Since then, I had THE BEST TIME shopping for presents for my daughters. The one born in January sort of got gypped, because I wasn't out of the Society yet. But the one born in March lucked out because I was DA'd 3 days before her birthday and I went hog-wild with all that repressed love!!!
It's just grand!
But, honey, I hope you're prepared for the meeting that will come. Like Claudia, I have to say "Yikes!" Your decision to celebrate (which you did not make lightly because you decided 2 months in advance) will cause you grief in Jehovah's organization. And if you tell the brothers how you really feel about celebrating your birthday (TWO days in a row, you lucky!) you may face a judicial committee.
So a LOT of introspection is probably a good idea right now.
Decide what it is that you believe to be right and good and true, and then remain true to yourself. It's the only way to be happy.
And, Jehovah IS "the happy God"!
(((Hugs)))
outnfree
PS Happy belated birthday to you, too, drunkwithliberty! Love your moniker and know the feeling
when my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to eminem because (in his words) he's bad.. i can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice.
by censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm.
i listened to eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think bob marley actually son the sheriff do they??).
This is difficult for me (defending eminem), but living in the Detroit area, when Tina asks
>Couldn't he use something other than fear and hate of women and gays to express 'societal ills'?
I have to respond that fear and hate of women and gays ARE societal ills. As Uni girl put it: 'Eminem was simply verbalizing the mumblings of society as a whole.'
As long as 7 years ago I was turning off a Connecticut radio station that my niece wanted to listen to because of the misogynist lyrics of the song that was playing. I don't have to add anything about gay bashing.
Prisca asked
> Why would anyone want to listen to songs that talk about killing people, raping a woman, or murdering homosexuals?
The killing goes on daily just about everywhere. Why would anyone want to read a newspaper that reported on such things? Watch TV news coverage of the aftermath? Watch those inane TV "talk" shows where people scream about [real or imagined] injustices, betrayals, etc.? Buy those tabloids?
Songs are generally a reflection of popular culture -- 20's honky-tonks, 30's depression, 40's world war, 50's rock'n'roll, etc. Unfortunately, there is a LOT of hatred alive and well in American society. The solution is LOVE, but too few are really extending themselves.
Personally, I think the best thing for Marshall Mathers III would be for him to find someone to really love and hug him. He is tortured and mixed-up. His music is an exaggerated reflection of the world as he sees it being played out. And he has personally been let down by a lot of people.
I don't go out of my way to listen to eminem (except maybe 'Stan'), but "my honor-roll-achieving, gay-lifestyle-is-fine-with-me, refuse-to-let-the-WTS-tell-ME-what-to-believe, 17-year-old" DAUGHTER bought his CD as soon as the record store would let her. She'd never harm a flea and she has a fine opinion of her own worth.
SHE says I get too incensed over the lyrics. *I* retort that she's not sensitive enough about the damage they can do.
But my favorite singers were the anti-culture balladeers of my youth, and it seems the young people see Eminem as a similar voice.
i just registered just today.
i am not a dissenter from jws--still an active member but i have an open mind and willing to listen to all who post here.
there have been some questions bugging me lately that have caused me to wonder about certain scriptures pertaining to being "born again.
Welcome, Flowerpetal!
I, too, look forward to discussing this "born again" matter as I have some questions, too. But maybe Simon would rather it be discussed in the Beliefs, Doctrine... etc. forum? (See his Why...? thread in that category).
Nice to have you aboard!
outnfree
let me preface this with a disclaimer.
i believe in god and a higher spiritual state however i do not believe that god can be encapsulated in any one religion.. that being said, i was thinking the other day about the upsoming high holy day of dubdom, the memorial.. this is where they gather together to ...what?
listen to a talk about the last hours of jesus life and then pass wine and bread around.
NikL,
INSULT!
Christ is the Mediator for ALL mankind.
Bruce144,
BUNK!
outnfree
all this talk about whether door to door work is fruitful or not has really got me thinking.. so i was wondering, (a) how many jw's or ex's here were actually converted on the door, and (b) how many jw's or ex's here ever obtained a convert on the door?.
i made 2 converts whilst a jw, but 1 was the son of an interested person, the other was a wayward son of a weak sister so i get a zero.. my dad worked at london heathrow as an air traffic controller, he got 6 other controllers to join up, so if you're arriving in the uk, don't fly apostasy airways!
for all his frequent bouts of vac pioneering, i don't think that he ever pulled a live one off the doors, so he gets a zero too.. my mum was quite a puller in her time but they were all friends of friends who came to sit in on bible studies etc, so, sorry mater, you get a zero also.. as a matter of fact, i'm wondering if the door to door work isn't completely pointless!.
Wasn't converted at the door.
Never converted anyone at the door. (Actually, never converted anyone, not even my own kids. Which is sort of a relief...)
outnfree
