Posts by outnfree

8

what where you looking for from the JWS

by stephenw20 in

i cant say i sought the jws out.

i had little choice , as my parents did the seeking, i hold them harmless, they did not investigate it beyond the wtbts pubs.. i did however at a point go it on my own, did the water dipping ore 1985 , so i feel, no allegiance to a group i vowed nothing to.. there was a point maybe 2 or 3 months when i felt i had a realtionship with god during my stint with the jws.

unfortuanately for me i lumped , god and them together and dismissed both together for a long time.. my question though to all here is this.

outnfree

Stephen,

I was looking for a spiritual Christian community that would not require me to believe in the Trinity. I had already decided at 14 that I did not believe it and refused to make my Lutheran confirmation because of it. At about 17, my ex-brother-in-law came home with some Witness literature, and I discovered that there DID exist a form of Christianity that did not require belief in the Trinity! It took me another 17 years to actually get baptized a JW.

Now that I'm out, I'm still looking for a spiritual Christian community that will not require me to believe in the Trinity!

However, I'm not sure yet what exactly I DO believe in. I find it much easier to list what I DON'T believe.

I used to think there was no immortal soul. Now I'm not so sure. Someone just pointed out to me that Jesus himself is the Bible character who most often mentions hell. So what is it? I'm not sure, but would like to think that if God really is love, he could not in a ga-zillion (being eternal and all, I use this enormous figure ) years think of torturing his wayward children in a burning fire or even just removing himself from their presence which would constitute emotional abuse in my book.
Is God Love? Only? Mustn't He have created Evil as a contrast to good?
Is God the Father and not the Mother?
Oh, oh, oh! So many things to THINK about and not accept blindly because of culture and training.
However,
I DO believe I am a good person, married to a wonderfully patient (never was a JW) man, that I have done a good job raising essentially healthy and HAPPY children (4), and that none of us is wicked nor out to intentionally harm anyone.

RR,
I was born in NJ and my best friend, an inactive JW, still lives there. Where does your Bible Student group meet and how often? If you would prefer, you may e-mail me the information. Also, is there a difference between "Russellites" and "Free Bible Students" and/or "Beroeans"? As per my stated goal above, I am still looking for a spiritual Christian community that will accept my disbelief in the trinity. And, despite my questions, I have not yet decided that I should choose NOT to worship God as a Christian.

Introspection, I loved your last thought:

It seems to me that many become frustrated in searching for love outside themselves, but I think even if they find it you can't keep it because the love that cannot be taken away is the love you have within yourself

Thanks to all who posted. It's an interesting thread.

outnfree

13

Post -Cult After Effects

by Seven in

i have been reading alot of margaret lately-thought i'd share this.. seven.

post-cult after effects .

psychological manipulation, cult groups, sects, and new religious movements .

outnfree

WOW! I'm so glad I checked this out after greeting bonnie!
Very useful information, Seven.
Thank you, because I'm sure many of us will [need to!] reference it frequently.

outnfree

13

new

by bonnie38 in

i have been browsing this site for a short time, and i have found it very inteteresting.

my personal story is lengthy, so i will not bore you with it at this time.

this is my dilemma: i was disfellowshipped four years ago.

outnfree

Welcome to the Board, Bonnie!

Me, I had opposite dreams: I used to dream that I was sitting in the back of the KH, sitting perpendicular to the platform, smoking a cigarette. I felt I didn't really belong there. Can't remember if this was BEFORE or after my baptism. Definitely after I quit smoking in order to be eligible, though!

Our subconscious works in mysterious ways. My advice (despite the above WARNING! WARNING! which I totally ignored) is to remember that the REALITY of your life now is much better than it was when you were depressed and in the Borg. ENJOY your Christian freedom! You DESERVE happiness.

Maybe your dreams are telling you that you are WORTHY of being reinstated. You probably are according to JW regulations. But if your present reality is so happy, accept the knowledge that you are a fine and GOOD person, and BE happy!

outnfree
(writing this without ever having checked out the Mental Health forum)

66

i am new

by knight in

i have read the various posts here an i have my own story to tell i amstill a witness not as active as i used to be but stillfaithful i think the main problem that jws have is that they put c.o's m.s's elders and the like on pedestals and when you do that you set yourself up for a letdown and when that person does something you dont think is right you are letdown but one should not let this block his/her relationship with jehovah.

outnfree

Dear Chris,

I hope you do not feel that I am trying to "rip you open" -- Matt. 7:6
And, the above scriptures seem, rather, to be name-calling on your part when I thought that I had been quite civil, honest and sane in my posts.

I am rather hurt that you assume that I have produced "bad fruitage" in my life when you do not yet know much about me, but am sure you did not mean to be unkind. Rather, I wonder if you were taken aback by the questions raised by myself and others on this thread, and, having no ready answers, decided to paint us with an apostate brush rather than spending time to ponder and do research.

You see, larc, stephen and I DID take the time to look up the cited scriptures (me in my NWT ) this AM.

The information on the foundational [to much of JW doctrine] date of 607 BCE for Jerusalem's fall can be found from "WTBTS-approved" sources -- that is, encyclopedias and non-religious websites. I did not ask you to do anything that would put your standing in the congregation in any more jeopardy than posting on this site might. But I'm thinking you did not do the research. Why? What have you to fear? Please research your Watchtowersfrom last fall/early this year. There is an article, on which I cannot put my hands at the moment, about not having to believe what is clearly untruth even if the source appears to be impeccably credentialed (sp?). If something doesn't ring true to your common sense (or Bible-trained conscience), you are NOT REQUIRED TO BELIEVE.

I took the Society at their word on several doctrines that I believe to be extra-Biblical: Suppose the "other sheep" were Gentiles needing to be brought into a covenant relationship which Jesus' apostles already enjoyed because of being member's of Jehovah's flock under the old Law Covenant, for example?

I do NOT reject Jehovah, Jesus Christ or the inspired Scriptures. I do not even reject ALL of the teachings of the WTBTS. But I DO realize that if I disbelieve just ONE, and do not even share it with anyone else but merely disbelieve ONE teaching in my own mind, I am considered an apostate worthy of shunning. Seems pretty cruel and unbalanced, doesn't it?

I am sorry that this thread seems to be ending with your feeling a need to run from us rather than having a continuing dialogue. I had hoped that I here met the requirements of 1 Peter 3:15.

My life would have been so much simpler if I had not decided to take up the challenge of holding my JW faith up to the very same type of examination that former religions are held up to when a Bible Study begins with a prospective Witness. May I suggest that you search the history of your own institution using only the published writings of C.T. Russell and his successors (named and anonymous) and see if you mightn't view the leaders and writings of "Babylon the Great" with a decidedly less critical eye?

I am lost. But at least I know it.
outnfree

13

the WT's 'Margin for Error'

by Tallyman in

jw
friends

just had to make another webpage to preserve focus' brief synthesis .

of the kult's all-encompassing, all-inclusive language.... .

* http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/outdoubt.html.

outnfree

THANK YOU to both you and Focus, Tallyman.

Without a doubt, doubtless, likely, it would seem that, --
oh! I know there were more -- they used to raise red flags in my mind in so many study articles!

Riz,
who has the sexiest superhero costume?

outnfree

14

Hair today, gone tomorrow...

by Carmel in

jw
friends

i note since i've been on various jw chat groups that having a beard in some places is a df'ing offense.

i don't recall this being the case when i was a dubby.

when did it become such and is there something written in the witchtower declaring it so?.

outnfree

If it just happened in California it won't be accepted on the East Coast for another 15 years or so! LOL

50

Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

by OlderTom in

jw
friends

my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

outnfree

TMS,
That's for PUBLIC consumption -- but where is the private, practical APPLICATION?

Many find it lacking in "Jehovah's" organization.

Larc & Zazu,
I'm sorry for the pins'n'needles situation. Shame you need to keep hiding, but KEEP HIDING!

Emyrose,
The elders appear to be "too busy" to attend to the lost sheep. Nobody concerned themselves about me while I was slowing down to zero meeting attendance.

Welcome, Hester!

And, YES, Older Tom, as your [very sad] story proves -- the WTBTS DOES break up families. With no good reason, at all, IMVHO.

outnfree

40

Have I changed?

by mommy in

jw
friends

as most of you know i am new to the world of the internet.

therefore i am new to the discussion board forum.

when i first entered simon's place, i did not fear to speak my mind.

outnfree

Mommy,

Your posts are some of the best reasons why I come back to this board again and again.

Peace.

outnfree

13

Facing JW-philosophy demons

by emyrose in

although i left jw's 7yrs ago.

i am now really starting to suffer emotionally and i .

think psychologically too.

outnfree

Welcome, Emyrose.

The above posts are pretty warm and helpful. I just wanted to add that perhaps you are having anxiety attacks and/or you're fearful of failure. After all, you have been conditioned by the organization not to participate in higher education (God won't like you if you spend time on that rather than Him). Has your family belittled your worth most of your life? Later, the "friends" did when you began thinking for yourself and asking questions, didn't they? You've been doing splendidly in college until now, when you have a real chance at
success and good job offers, and you may be asking yourself (sub-consciously) if you DESERVE such good things?

You describe yourself as judgmental and a perfectionist, and it seems you judge yourself as harshly as you do others, holding them and you up to impossible standards. Emyrose, Almighty God HIMSELF doesn't hold us accountable for all our sins. We are able to be declared righteous by Him because of the Ransom even when we are NOT righteous. DECLARE YOURSELF and your friends "righteous enough.

Many ex-JWs needed somebody to tell us that we were special. My mother just asked me why it was that my grandparents were Masons, my grand-uncles and aunts and families moved to Utah and became Mormons, and I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I told her we all must have a need to be "special" in some way -- even if it was as part of a fanatical cult! Maybe you are feeling the loss of the artificial specialness given you by the WTBTS? But, Emyrose, that wonderful boyfriend you keep judging thinks you're pretty special. And you have friends, too, who are honest enough to tell you when you're "opinionated."

Please do seek professional help. And please do hang around here and let us get to know you better.

outnfree

66

i am new

by knight in

i have read the various posts here an i have my own story to tell i amstill a witness not as active as i used to be but stillfaithful i think the main problem that jws have is that they put c.o's m.s's elders and the like on pedestals and when you do that you set yourself up for a letdown and when that person does something you dont think is right you are letdown but one should not let this block his/her relationship with jehovah.

outnfree

Chris,

As I see it, the Bible characters you and/or larc and others mentioned: Adam, Noah, Abraham, the judges, kings, etc., were perhaps all "spokesmen" for Jehovah, as were the prophets, relaying Jehovah's instructions or principles to their families (in the case of the patriarchs), tribes (in the case of the judges), the Israelite nation(s) in the case of the kings and prophets.

However, as far as I can recall, only Moses and Christ are spoken of in Scripture (or maybe only in WT publications) in the special role of mediators. Moses mediated the Law convenant between Jehovah and the Israelites. And Jesus mediated the "better covenant" between Jehovah and the body of Christ -- the church.

Hope that answers your question as to the kind of spokesmen I was looking for you to describe in between Adam to the present, because I am of the opinion (and yes, we don't have to agree) that the Governing Body members of the Faithful & Discreet Slave have presumptuously inserted themselves as another "mediator" for the present day church. That is, I believe that we are ALL members of the body, that we don't need the Governing Body (because, really, who else among the FDS actually make pronouncements from God except the GB -- the others receive "new light" at the same time as the "great crowd") to mediate the covenant between Christ and ourselves, because Christ is already the Mediator between God and ALL men.
(1 Tim. 2:5 -- please check other translations alongside your NWT).

In light of the above, the answer to your question to Stephen: "how would one carry out the preaching work? individually without direction? out of random?" would be It is before God and Christ that we are charged to "preach the word"; Jesus told us what we should be preaching; Jehovah made sure that it was written down for us; holy spirit helps us to recall the Word and to demonstrate Christian love, and we each have an individual responsibility to evangelize. (Even the WTBTS reminds us of this.) --2 Tim. 4:1-5.

However, Christ did not micromanage the ministry -- no records, no time reports, no canned presentations, informal witnessing in peoples homes as long as they WANTED to hear the message and would be hospitable. If the message was received unfavorably, they were left alone. (Bible is silent on return visits to individuals.)

As regards Jerusalem: you are, of course, correct that Jerusalem fell twice. I was speaking of the ancient fall, the time of total destruction, when the Israelites who were still alive were taken into exile to Babylon. This is the date it would be wise to investigate.

The "line of channel used by Jah cannot be proved clearly as claimed." (Sneaky of me to use your own words against you, isn't it?) On another thread I suggested that the math be done -- number of "anointed" Christians before apostasy set in plus number of Christians professing such anointing since the "other sheep" were identified in 1935 subtracted from 144,000 divided by the intervening number of years equals what average number of anointed representatives of Christ on earth in any given year? Not much of an organization, is it? Rather like the mere 70 or so sent out by Christ himself on one recorded occasion. But not the growth one would expect of an "organization" which had the backing of holy spirit and the leadership of Christ Jesus himself.

I want to make clear to you, Chris, that I am not a member of any particular Christian denomination. However, your words concerning "if it's Jehovah's work & backing, it will prevail" -- meaning, I assume, the WTBTS -- could very well also be applied to orthodox Christianity, couldn't they? AND orthodox Christianity CAN trace its "organization" back through the past 1700 years to the Christian congregation(s) set up by Jesus' apostles and disciples.

Food for thought.