Posts by outnfree

20

BigRocksFirst

by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

jw
friends

one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

time for a quiz.

" and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

outnfree

Rip,

I have read that scripture at Ezekiel over the past year, and recognized that while JWdom used to apply it to false religionists, the JW's ARE the false religionists and the application is to them and their ilk. Thank you for your empathy as we each try to figure out what's truly required of us.

DA,

I'm not comfortable with you calling me "Sister". For while I appreciate that the tone of your posts became less strident as this thread went on, I also feel that your original post sounded coercive and I have had about all I can stand of that during my "time served."

I must say that even your statement that "here...a large number...[are] blaming someone else for their problems of life" is quite judgmental:

In many cases, someone else IS to blame for their problems -- being raised by or married to [JW] alcoholics, conditional love by [JW]parents and family, various forms of abuse: sex, pedophilia, physical, verbal -- and all in a Society proclaiming that its members are happy, God-fearing, and loving!!!

Then there are others here who are blaming NO ONE ELSE for their problems, in fact, are beating themselves up for being STUPID, NAIVE, and TRUSTING for many years. They despair because the Kult still has loved ones in captivity, as it did they themselves before they slowly crawled their way out of the FOG and DECEPTION that is the product of years of conditioning.

We are all, I think, trying to put our past behind us. The reason we gather at this forum is, as someone has already said, to meet with other "veterans" who understand our former captivity, or to glean insight into the best escape route from the prisoner-of-war camp that IS the Watch Tower World.

We have remorse, we have guilt (especially if we led any others to surrender themselves to the Organization and now are helpless to free them), and we grieve the lost years and lost opportunities we surrendered as we subscribed to the idea that other human beings knew better than we ourselves what was best for us.

I realize, DA, that you believe that Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit know better than ourselves what is best for us. That you have comfort in holding to such a view. That, perhaps, you wish to offer that same comfort and the wisdom that you have found in the Bible to others, sincerely believing that this would be of great benefit to them. Thank you for that. It is kind and loving.

However, I agree with BugEye that choosing what to believe is a PERSONAL decision. And I stand by what I wrote above: I would not presume to have the answers for others. I have just left a high-control group and have no wish to control others.

I am learning to trust myself to decide which of society's, God's, my family's, my friend's laws, regulations, ideals, morals are truly valuable and which less so, which ones should guide my actions, and which are of little or no consequence to me.

What I, personally, would wish to finally attain is a life lived by ideals that are important to me, in no way brings harm to others, and which is full of love and happiness.

IMO, it would be nice if each and everyone of us managed that. But I refuse to tell ANYONE that they must think it would be nice, too!

Peace,

outnfree

4

It Hurts!

by Jang in

jw
friends

for those who haven't seen this before: this applies to both cults and spiritually abusive systems.. the emotional pain of leaving a cult.

it hurts.

it hurts even more when it is.

outnfree

Thank you, JanG.

This, coupled with the kind words posted here by many a few days back, was just the tonic I needed!

outnfree

13

Question on the generation teaching

by expatbrit in

we all know about the wt's dramatic about face in 1995 on the generation thing.

it was a large nail in their coffin, as far as i was concerned.

after all, surely a verse so important, so relevant to our modern times would have been studied intensively at bethel.

outnfree

Expat,

Haven't done any personal research on this, but the pastor at the non-denominal church I've been attending DID mention recently that there is a large library available to all in the office.

Perhaps I'll take a peek on Wed. PM.? I'll let you know what I find in the diverse "Commentaries."

This is interesting to me, too, as I've found that all those WT warnings about Christendom not having the correct understanding on things was a bunch of bull-roar! I've already heard an "Honesty" sermon that could've come straight from a WT outline and Bible studies (without aids!!!) on Sunday mornings have leaders spouting quotations from different sources and references to the original language nuances, etc., just like all that GREAT spiritual food we got at the Kingdom Hall.

Talk to you soon!
outnfree

10

FLASH! GB Addresses 144k at DA!

by TR in

jw
friends

at this particular district assembly, the governing body of jehovah's witnesses dresses down the faithful as well as themselves.. .

"cults suck"

outnfree

Thinking this was on the level when I read the subject line, my reaction was "WHAT?!!??"

Shoulda known better!
ROFLMAO -- AGAIN, TR!
outnfree

To DNC Workgroup

by outnfree in

jw
friends

your comments are solicited on the press releases i posted today for the launch of www.do-not-call.org at the workgroup site.. thanks,.

outnfree

Your comments are solicited on the press releases I posted today for the launch of www.do-not-call.org at the workgroup site.

Thanks,
outnfree

20

BigRocksFirst

by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

jw
friends

one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

time for a quiz.

" and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

outnfree

DA,

I am sorry I don't live up to your standards. I am struggling mightily right now with my concepts of Jehovah God, Jesus Christ and the holy spirit (former and present). I am, in fact, in a non-denominational Bible study class called "Experiencing God" (written by Baptists, I think). I also attend a local non-denominational church where I attend Sunday School and church fairly regularly. I am reading the Bible without study aids for the first time in many years (which is actually what started my final exit from the WTBTS).

I understand that you are saying that it is NOT the Society one must worship and that you believe that Jehovah, Jesus and holy spirit should have primacy in our lives, otherwise what is left?

EXACTLY what I'm struggling with.

Is the Bible truly inspired? Every word? Or is it just another wisdom book? Not having read other religious wisdom books yet, I don't feel I'm in a position to know.

I feel that there is a God because I have seen Him act on my behalf.
Or was it just my concept and belief that He would help that calmed me and allowed my "Higher Me" figure out what the best course would be? I'm still leaning toward God, but a God who is largely disinterested and only responds when it pleases Him. This entire post could seem like blasphemy to some, and utter foolishness to the atheists here.

I have no "beef" to offer. I would not presume to have the answers for others. I have just left a high-control group and have no wish to control others. I am, however, happy to have this forum as a place to express my ideas, as, I'm sure, you do, DA.

My post expressed my two big rocks right now as being loving my family and the aforementioned search for a new belief system.

I do not feel that I loved my non-believing husband in the proper way the entire course of my 11 years as a baptized witness (probably not during the time I spent studying either). Too much deception. Not enough fellow feeling. I have to work to repair that now, and redefine how we interact. Same with my children. Too much conditional love. That must change, but old habits die hard.

I HAVE Big Rocks, DA. But they are personal. They might not be YOUR Big Rocks but they are meaningful to ME.

outnfree

20

BigRocksFirst

by DevilsAdvocate_DA in

jw
friends

one day, an expert in time management was speaking to a group of business students and, to drive home a point, used a illustration those students will never forget.. as he stood in front of the group of high-powered overachievers he said,"okay,.

time for a quiz.

" and he pulled out a one-gallon, wide-mouth mason jar and set it on the table in fornt of him.. he also produced about a dozen fist-sized rocks and carefully placed them, one at a time, into the jar.

outnfree

I, too, heard this first at a KH talk by a CO.

As it's application was for time management improvement purposes, that's all fine and dandy. The inference that the SOCIETY will choose for YOU what your Big Rocks are is what is problematic here to me, not the finite confines of the jar. After all, we have no way of knowing precisely how LONG our lives will be, but they will be finite.

Out only two months, I am struggling with what my "Big Rocks" now are.
Family, and how I can display my love to them, and taking time to find out what I DO believe in, must be my largest two right now. It is immensely satisfying to me now to know, as riz stated, that I can continue growing and exchanging old beliefs for new ones.

24

Advertising the Kingdom Hall??

by betweenworlds in

jw
friends

don't think i ever saw a kh with it's own webpage before.

* http://members.tripod.com/~marionkykingdomhall/kingdomhall.html.

wow!

outnfree

Anyone else notice the subtle Borg Control with the "WT Public Affairs" button being bolded on the home page?

Sheesh!!!
outnfree

55

Demons / Urban Legends! Which Is It????

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

has anyone on this board ever experienced contact with demons?.

i have heard demons talked about for years, however i have never known anyone that has had any real experiences with them, i have only heard storys.. .

(some quotes).

outnfree

Well, Slayer and V,

I believe you guys. And I'm not sure what the explanation is.

But I also want to say that coming out of a place where so many told us what could or could not be true, what we should or should not believe, that reading the posts from people INSISTING that these things could not happen (when nobody really knows) or that they have the definitive explanation, is distressing to me.

Each one of us has the right to his/her own OPINION, but let's not belittle another's honestly and openly related experience, just because it hasn't happened in our realm of experience or isn't scientifically provable. There are MANY, many things that cannot be scientifically explained -- theorized, yes; explained, no.

Hope I'm not being too sensitive. (I've been touchy, lately, I know!)

outnfree

12

Just don't care?

by rollercoaster in

jw
friends

when you are coming out of the organization do you ever get to a point where you don't want to discuss religion, and you don't want to think about death and the bible?

i think i'm just riding along right now.

i'm taking it a day at a time, and seem to be very outspoken to my family.

outnfree

RC,

I'm not at the lashing out point. I'm now at the self-recrimination point. But that IS the point. As the others have said, these are stages, and we WILL get past them. Let's just hope our loved ones survive our moods en route!

JanG,

The link you posted didn't work for me. ???