Posts by I_love

39

Luke 16:19-31 Sheol/Hades/Hell? literal vs. metaphor

by I_love_Jeff in

jehovah's witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment.

for me, i do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the bible which strongly favors eternal damnation: .

the bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: .

I_love_Jeff

Jehovah's Witnesses say this is just a parable and that there is no eternal punishment. For me, I do not believe in eternal punishment even though there is a lot of information in the Bible which strongly favors eternal damnation:

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:
• "Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)
• "Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)
• "Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)
• "Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)
• "Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)
• "Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• "Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)

My question has to do with the parable in Luke 16:19-31 Sheol, Hades, Hell

If this is just a parable, what percentage of it is true in regards to eternal punishment? I understand that the parable is simply exposing the falsehood of the Pharisees. If Jesus discusses Sheol, would that portion of the parable not necessarily be JUST a parable but literal?

2

Luke 16:19-31 Partially metaphorical. How much of the parable is scripturally true Sheol/Hades/Hell?

by I_love_Jeff in

jehovah's witnesses state there is only "soul sleep" and that jesus' parable, rich man and his brothers who did not listen to moses and the prophets (vv.

29-31), represent the pharisees.

either the jehovah's witnesses' jesus made a mistake or the watchtower made a huge error.

I_love_Jeff

"Get back jojo"

2

Luke 16:19-31 Partially metaphorical. How much of the parable is scripturally true Sheol/Hades/Hell?

by I_love_Jeff in

jehovah's witnesses state there is only "soul sleep" and that jesus' parable, rich man and his brothers who did not listen to moses and the prophets (vv.

29-31), represent the pharisees.

either the jehovah's witnesses' jesus made a mistake or the watchtower made a huge error.

I_love_Jeff

Jehovah's Witnesses state there is only "soul sleep" and that Jesus' parable, rich man and his brothers who did not listen to Moses and the prophets (vv. 29-31), represent the Pharisees.

Either the Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus made a mistake or The Watchtower made a huge error. He wasn't asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus' statements about sheol make no sense. Even though it is a metaphor, the story does not add up correctly within the JW doctrine. In my understanding, this may very well be partially metaphorical and rest being true (hell). The part that is true is that of eternal punishment. Let's take a look at some passages to back up the meaning of Hades. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48).

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:
• "Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)
• "Everlasting punishment" (Mathew 25:46)
• "Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)
• "Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)
• "Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)
• "Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
• "Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever" (Jude 7,13)
Passages on life after death: Scripture teaches that the spirits of men are fully conscious after separation from the body at death:
1) They can speak: Isaiah 14:9-11 Ezekiel 32:21
2)They can cry:
Matthew 8:11, 12; 13:43, 50; 22:13 Luke 16:24-31;13:28 Revelation 6:9-11
3) They can hear:
John 5:25 1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6
4) They can see:
Luke 16:23
John 8:51-54, 45
5) They can feel pain:
Luke 16:23, 24
Revelation 20;10
6) They have memory:
Luke 16:28

6

Did Jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

by I_love_Jeff in

did jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners?

a popular jw on yahoo answers is insisting that jesus shunned those types of sinners.

i do not recall jesus shunning anyone in his time.

I_love_Jeff

Did Jesus shun the obstinately willful or incorrigible sinners? A popular JW on yahoo answers is insisting that Jesus shunned those types of sinners. I do not recall Jesus shunning anyone in His time.

4

Is it possible to compare the Elders Manual to the Mishnah (early Talmud)?

by I_love_Jeff in

mark 7:13 thus you nullify the word of god by your tradition that you have handed down.

and you do many things like that.

" read mark 7:1-13 for further details.. .

I_love_Jeff

@WTWizard-LOL

4

Is it possible to compare the Elders Manual to the Mishnah (early Talmud)?

by I_love_Jeff in

mark 7:13 thus you nullify the word of god by your tradition that you have handed down.

and you do many things like that.

" read mark 7:1-13 for further details.. .

I_love_Jeff

OOOO GREAT!!!! Thank you Prognoser!!!

50

Why didn't God disfellowship Jesus for breaking the laws of the Talmud?

by I_love_Jeff in

jesus loathed the talmud and broke as many of its laws as he could on any occasion that presented itself.

so if jesus broke the laws of the talmud, wouldn't he have been disfellowshipped if he did the same thing to the watchtower.

a jehovah's witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated if he/she breaks this rule in the elder's manual: rebellion against jehovah's organization.. what say you?.

I_love_Jeff

We can still talk Mr King Solomon : )

4

Is it possible to compare the Elders Manual to the Mishnah (early Talmud)?

by I_love_Jeff in

mark 7:13 thus you nullify the word of god by your tradition that you have handed down.

and you do many things like that.

" read mark 7:1-13 for further details.. .

I_love_Jeff

Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that." Read Mark 7:1-13 for further details.

*Please give some examples of how the Elders book (written by men) may contain rules which void the laws of God?

**Bonus question: Is it possible to compare some of the rules in the Elders Manual to those in the Mishnah (early Talmud)? If so, any examples?

50

Why didn't God disfellowship Jesus for breaking the laws of the Talmud?

by I_love_Jeff in

jesus loathed the talmud and broke as many of its laws as he could on any occasion that presented itself.

so if jesus broke the laws of the talmud, wouldn't he have been disfellowshipped if he did the same thing to the watchtower.

a jehovah's witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated if he/she breaks this rule in the elder's manual: rebellion against jehovah's organization.. what say you?.

I_love_Jeff

So Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of the Holy Bible. So the modern day Pharisees (Jehovah's Witnesses) have their own compact version of the Mishnah which is the Elder's rule book? Perhaps we can find some similar points made in both books (THe Mishnah and Elders Book?

50

Why didn't God disfellowship Jesus for breaking the laws of the Talmud?

by I_love_Jeff in

jesus loathed the talmud and broke as many of its laws as he could on any occasion that presented itself.

so if jesus broke the laws of the talmud, wouldn't he have been disfellowshipped if he did the same thing to the watchtower.

a jehovah's witness can be disfellowshipped or disassociated if he/she breaks this rule in the elder's manual: rebellion against jehovah's organization.. what say you?.

I_love_Jeff

Thank you King Solomon for your kind words. I will read all this interesting information that all of you have presented here. Quite informative indeed!!

I_love_Jeff

Posts by I_love_Jeff