The point I am trying to make is that the Book of Revelation is OPEN to interpretation. I made a rhyme lol. The question previous to this as well as this one DOES suggest interpretational freedom of MANY verses if not all.
I_love_Jeff
JoinedPosts by I_love_Jeff
-
6
If 144,000 in Revelation is literal then why is the number in the Greek language in plural form?
by I_love_Jeff inthus indicating indefiniteness, thousands?
see rev.
5:11 and 7:4. strong g5505.
-
-
-
6
If 144,000 in Revelation is literal then why is the number in the Greek language in plural form?
by I_love_Jeff inthus indicating indefiniteness, thousands?
see rev.
5:11 and 7:4. strong g5505.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
thus indicating indefiniteness, THOUSANDS? see Rev. 5:11 and 7:4
Strong G5505
Original Word: χιλι?ς, ?δος, ?
Part of Speech: Noun, Nom. Feminine PLURAL
Transliteration: chiliasRevelation 5:11 I saw, and I heard something like a voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousands of ten thousands, and thousands (CHILIAS) of thousands; (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (144 thousands (CHILIAS) were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons of Israel): (YLT)
http://biblehub.com/topical/t/thousands.htm
Cognate: 5505 xiliás (a feminine noun derived from 5507 /xílioi, "one thousand") - literally, "a thousand"; the cube of 10 (103); also used figuratively to express absolute inclusiveness (complete totality). See 5507 (xilioi).NAS Word Usage - Total: 22
thousand 20, THOUSANDS 2
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/chilias.htmlIn both verses, the word (chilias) being used is feminine PLURAL (THOUSANDS) . This means it is an exceptional usage which does denote a non-literal amount of time.
-
14
In Revelation, why is one verse to be taken literally and the other figuratively?
by I_love_Jeff inwhy is the great crowd in rev.7:9, standing before the throne mind you, to be taken figuratively and on earth if the same description (before the throne) in rev.
14:3 is used in a literal sense and in heaven?.
rev.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
THANK YOU DATA-DOG!!!
-
14
In Revelation, why is one verse to be taken literally and the other figuratively?
by I_love_Jeff inwhy is the great crowd in rev.7:9, standing before the throne mind you, to be taken figuratively and on earth if the same description (before the throne) in rev.
14:3 is used in a literal sense and in heaven?.
rev.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Thanks Bobcat!!
-
14
In Revelation, why is one verse to be taken literally and the other figuratively?
by I_love_Jeff inwhy is the great crowd in rev.7:9, standing before the throne mind you, to be taken figuratively and on earth if the same description (before the throne) in rev.
14:3 is used in a literal sense and in heaven?.
rev.
-
-
-
14
In Revelation, why is one verse to be taken literally and the other figuratively?
by I_love_Jeff inwhy is the great crowd in rev.7:9, standing before the throne mind you, to be taken figuratively and on earth if the same description (before the throne) in rev.
14:3 is used in a literal sense and in heaven?.
rev.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Why is the great crowd in Rev.7:9, standing before the throne mind you, to be taken figuratively and on Earth if the same description (before the throne) in Rev. 14:3 is used in a literal sense and in Heaven?
Rev. 14:3 Literal "......before the throne......144,000". In Heaven
Rev. 7:9: Figurative "....great crowd....standing before the throne...." On Earth.
#2476 ?στημι histemi {his'-tay-mee} to stand v.
http://www.lexiconcordance.com/greek/2476.htmlIn case the Jehovah's Witnesses decide to do some word magic, the link above will direct them to the meaning of the word "histemi". There are two different meanings (see link above). According to the definition of the Greek word "histemi" it can be used figuratively OR literally. They choose it to be figurative. Why? They use the following argument to prove their point : specific numbers (144,000) are to be understood as literal. Not exact number:symbolic . Here is the problem with this idea: Reading Rev. 21:16-17 the numbers are very specific yet symbolic in JW teachings. 12 foundations and 12 gates bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 12:12-14). The city is 12,000 stadia long, 12,000 stadia wide, and 12,000 stadia high (12 x 1000), with walls 144 cubits thick (12 x 12)
Revelation 7:9 describes the great multitude as "standing before the throne" and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes." That puts the "great multitude" in Heaven! The phrase "before the throne" is the same phrase used of the 144,000 in the later vision (Rev. 14:3), and always pictures location in Heaven (Rev. 1:4; 4:5, 6, 10; 7:9, 11, 15; 8:3; 14:3; 20:12).
Again with the information given, why is the great crowd in Rev.7:9, standing before the throne, to be taken figuratively and on Earth if the same description (before the throne) in Rev. 14:3 is used in a literal sense and in Heaven?
Are they trying to force Scripture into validating a preconceived doctrine?
-
5
How do the Jehivah's Witnesses get "city government" out of "heavenly city"?
by I_love_Jeff in"abraham had come out of ur of the chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more.
he and his son isaac and grandson jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that god has prepared and in which the promised seed or offspring of abraham will be gods king.
this is the kingdom of god, or the kingdom of the heavens, as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression the heavens having reference to god.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Blondie you should see the response that CF gave in the link I provided. LOL!
-
5
How do the Jehivah's Witnesses get "city government" out of "heavenly city"?
by I_love_Jeff in"abraham had come out of ur of the chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more.
he and his son isaac and grandson jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that god has prepared and in which the promised seed or offspring of abraham will be gods king.
this is the kingdom of god, or the kingdom of the heavens, as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression the heavens having reference to god.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
OOOO shoot, I spelled Jehovah incorrectly...oops.
-
5
How do the Jehivah's Witnesses get "city government" out of "heavenly city"?
by I_love_Jeff in"abraham had come out of ur of the chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more.
he and his son isaac and grandson jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that god has prepared and in which the promised seed or offspring of abraham will be gods king.
this is the kingdom of god, or the kingdom of the heavens, as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression the heavens having reference to god.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
"Abraham had come out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and he did not want that city any more. He and his son Isaac and grandson Jacob wanted a better place, that is, one belonging to heaven, a city government, namely, the government or city that God has prepared and in which the promised Seed or Offspring of Abraham will be God’s King. This is the “kingdom of God,” or “the kingdom of the heavens,” as these two expressions are interchangeable, the expression “the heavens” having reference to God. Under that kingdom of the heavens or kingdom of God Abraham, Isaac and Jacob expected to live on earth". (Watchtower 3/15/1962 Questions From the Readers)
I also checked the Kingdom Interlinear Bible Hebrews 11:8-19. Not able to able find any information on "city government" in those verses. What do you guys think? -
10
Jehovah's Witnesses: If the 144,000 were not defiled by women, does that not make them ALL men?
by I_love_Jeff inand unmarried, of course, since they are all virgins?.
since you are taking this all literally, perhaps you need to re-read the verses carefully.
if parts of this verse are to be taken figuratively then how do you determine the number, 144,000 to be literal?.
-
-
I_love_Jeff
I posted this question on Yahoo Answers by the way. This is meant for Jehovah's Witnesses and Ex Witnesses on here : )