@The Fall Guy-All that is fine and dandy but it does not explain why the Jehovah's Witnesses are placing human judges under the same category as elohim-Psalm 8:5 contradicts their viewpoint. Also, there are no texts in the Hebrew Bible that call Israel’s judges Elohim.
I_love_Jeff
JoinedPosts by I_love_Jeff
-
5
Why are the elohim (angels) equal to human judges?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording the jehovah's witnesses, psalm 82:1 (watchtower library 2012) human judges are equal to angels?????.
when you hit the astrick, jw interpretation states:.
lxxv gc, “gods”; sy, “angels”; .
-
-
-
5
Why are the elohim (angels) equal to human judges?
by I_love_Jeff inaccording the jehovah's witnesses, psalm 82:1 (watchtower library 2012) human judges are equal to angels?????.
when you hit the astrick, jw interpretation states:.
lxxv gc, “gods”; sy, “angels”; .
-
-
I_love_Jeff
According the Jehovah's Witnesses, Psalm 82:1 (Watchtower Library 2012) human judges are equal to angels?????
When you hit the astrick, JW interpretation states:
Or, “godlike ones.” Heb., ‘elo-him’;
LXXV gc, “gods”; Sy, “angels”;
T, “judges.”
So what about Psalm 8:5? Irrelevant???? LOLOL!!!
-
3
Why are the elohim like angels?
by I_love_Jeff inas you (jws and ex-jws) well know the jehovah's witnesses interpret psalm 82:6 " ' you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high (god)' " when you hit on the asterisk (using the 2012 watchtower library), you will notice the following interpretations: or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels/ human judges.”.
notice here that "t" is the targum onkelos to be exact.
firstly, why is the word "elohim" interpreted as "like angels" if their is no such interpretation in the entire hebrew bible (masoretic text)?
-
-
I_love_Jeff
As you (JWs and ex-JWs) well know the Jehovah's Witnesses interpret Psalm 82:6 " ' You are gods*, And all of you are sons of the Most High (God)' " When you hit on the asterisk (using the 2012 Watchtower Library), you will notice the following interpretations: Or, “godlike ones.” Heb., ʼelo·him′; Gr., the·oi′; Syr., daʼ·la·hin; Lat., di′i; T, “like angels/ human judges.”
Notice here that "T" is the Targum Onkelos to be exact.
Firstly, Why is the word "elohim" interpreted as "like angels" if their is no such interpretation in the entire Hebrew Bible (Masoretic Text)? It is actually a different Hebrew word all together.
Secondly and most importantly, why is Genesis 6:4- "the sons of the [true] God" NOT interpreted the same way as Psalm 82:6 in the NWT using the Targum Onkelos??? "Like angels" OR "human judges"
To sum it all up:
Why is Genesis 6:4 the exception here?
-
13
Godlike ones vs. the godlike ones?
by I_love_Jeff innwt: psalm 8:5 * hebrew: 2:7: “you made him a little lower than angels.” if men are called "godlike ones", according to jehovah's witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"psalm 82:6 “i myself have said, ‘you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high.
*or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels.”****nowhere in the hebrew bible are human beings referred to the word "elohim".
"godlike" in hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים"
-
-
I_love_Jeff
"the Bible is True because it says it's True"
Which logical fallacy would this phrase fall under? Hummmmm
-
13
Godlike ones vs. the godlike ones?
by I_love_Jeff innwt: psalm 8:5 * hebrew: 2:7: “you made him a little lower than angels.” if men are called "godlike ones", according to jehovah's witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"psalm 82:6 “i myself have said, ‘you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high.
*or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels.”****nowhere in the hebrew bible are human beings referred to the word "elohim".
"godlike" in hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים"
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Oh, and BTW, I think it would be fun to blow your mind with a short talk about who Almighty God actually is (which changes) through the ages. About every 2000 years, God is replaced by a new God as the "astrological ages" change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age
For example, you can remember the worshiping of the golden calf, and how Moshu was pissed off, right? Well, THAT version of God represented the constellation Taurus, the bull. However, at that time, the reason the people were not to worship THAT God was because the Ram (Aries) was the new God in town. Then, in about 2000 more years, Jesus became the new God because that was the Age of Pisces! Now we are in or close to being in the Age of Aquarius (like the song in the musical "Hair"). A new God emerges. Can we agree on THIS?
-
13
Godlike ones vs. the godlike ones?
by I_love_Jeff innwt: psalm 8:5 * hebrew: 2:7: “you made him a little lower than angels.” if men are called "godlike ones", according to jehovah's witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"psalm 82:6 “i myself have said, ‘you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high.
*or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels.”****nowhere in the hebrew bible are human beings referred to the word "elohim".
"godlike" in hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים"
-
-
I_love_Jeff
@Wonderment If this were a free in-home Bible study, we could start talking about who IS or who IS NOT the one, true Jehovah God, our Grand Creator. The Witnesses are more than happy to point out that an Elohim like Ba'al is "a god" in the same sense that Jesus/Michael is also "a god". It really doesn't matter a whole lot whether a human or a spirit being is considered to be "a god" (as the NWT states at John 1:1). The key is that if you are "a god" in the Spirit World, that makes you Elohim. If you are "a god" in the physical realm, that means that you are NOT Elohim. The concept is simple. A human can be appointed "as" Elohim, or can be said to be Elohim-like, but if you are a human, you CANNOT be a member of the Spirit World with the exception of Jesus who visited the apostles and allowed Thomas to touch his wound. The resurrected Jesus had a solid foot in both worlds, but that would be the only exception. Of course, as you know, the Witnesses say that Jesus' body dissolved, but that's another story for another time. If you want to hear evidence of how Angels of God were put in charge of the Nations, click this link for further information Angels of God (Watchtower of Babel Channel). These are the dudes who are mentioned in Psalm 82 (not human judges). The Targum shows how both terms "Angels of God" and "Sons of Israel" appeared together at one point and then the angels were eliminated altogether in the Masoretic text. Thanks for the interesting discussion, friend.
-
13
Godlike ones vs. the godlike ones?
by I_love_Jeff innwt: psalm 8:5 * hebrew: 2:7: “you made him a little lower than angels.” if men are called "godlike ones", according to jehovah's witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"psalm 82:6 “i myself have said, ‘you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high.
*or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels.”****nowhere in the hebrew bible are human beings referred to the word "elohim".
"godlike" in hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים"
-
-
I_love_Jeff
@Wonderment-
In Exodus 4.16, Moses is presented serving as "God" (lê·lō·hîm) to Aaron. SIMILE- Moses is not being called A GOD
In Exodus 7.1, Moses made "God," or "a god" (’ĕ·lō·hîm) to Pharaoh. SIMILE- Moses is not being called A GOD
Psalm 45:6, Solomon is addressed as "God (Heb.: ’ĕ·lō·hîm; Greek: ho theós)": “Your throne God forever and ever.” This text was quoted in Hebrews 1.8, applied to Jesus Christ.The king is addressed as God’s representative........Watchtower Library states: (Psalm 45:6) God is your throne to time indefinite, even forever; The scepter of your kingship is a scepter of uprightness.
At Psalm 82.6, human judges are referred to as "gods (’ĕ·lō·hîm)." Psalm 82:7 according to THIS simile the gods mentioned in this chapter are IMMORTAL
I mentioned the HEBREW BIBLE not the New Testament. Human beings mentioned in the Hebrew Bible are not MADE INTO gods but ONLY AS REPRESENTATIVES.
Representatives VS created as gods are two different things thus Psalm 8:5 makes humans mere humans with godlike qualities NOT IMMORTAL like Psalm 82:7
-
13
Godlike ones vs. the godlike ones?
by I_love_Jeff innwt: psalm 8:5 * hebrew: 2:7: “you made him a little lower than angels.” if men are called "godlike ones", according to jehovah's witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"psalm 82:6 “i myself have said, ‘you are gods*, and all of you are sons of the most high.
*or, “godlike ones.” heb., ʼelo·him′; gr., the·oi′; syr., daʼ·la·hin; lat., di′i; t, “like angels.”****nowhere in the hebrew bible are human beings referred to the word "elohim".
"godlike" in hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים"
-
-
I_love_Jeff
NWT: Psalm 8:5 * Hebrew: 2:7: “You made him a little lower than angels.”
If men are called "godlike ones", according to Jehovah's Witnesses, how, then, are they a little lower than the angels also called the "godlike ones"
Psalm 82:6 “I myself have said, ‘YOU are gods*, And all of YOU are sons of the Most High.
*Or, “godlike ones.” Heb., ʼelo·him′; Gr., the·oi′; Syr., daʼ·la·hin; Lat., di′i; T, “like angels.”
****Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible are human beings referred to the word "Elohim". "Godlike" in Hebrew is termed "כמו אלוהים" -
3
Sons of God vs Sons of Israel
by I_love_Jeff ina brief overview of how the term "angels of god" mentioned at deuteronomy 32:8 was replaced by "sons of israel.
" textual evidence is explored in the targum and the septuagint versions of the bible.
who were the masoretes and what was their agenda?
-
-
I_love_Jeff
A brief overview of how the term "Angels of God" mentioned at Deuteronomy 32:8 was replaced by "Sons of Israel." Textual evidence is explored in the Targum and the Septuagint versions of the Bible. Who were the Masoretes and what was their agenda? How have Jehovah's Witnesses supported this burial of historical data? God's Divine Council played a significant role in the Bible, and here is yet another fascinating story detailing who they were and what they did.
See links below for further clarification:
-
2
What is the difference between elohim and elohim?
by I_love_Jeff inanother question for jehovah's witnesses.
if the second elohim (אֱלהִים) of psalm 82:1 refers to humans, then what happens when we substitute "humans" as a translation in other verses where elohim (or elim, the other plural for "gods") occurs in the plural?
psalm 8:4-5 what is man, that you (god) art mindful of him?
-
-
I_love_Jeff
Thank you smiddy3