What amazes me is the great lengths they go to protect confidentiality in what might incriminate them legally, while local elders tend to have loose lips and you can find out pretty much whatever you like if you chummy them up enough.
And they sure don't seem to care about "confidentiality" when the "crime" is potential apostasy and feel the need to warn others in the congregation about associating with you.
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an open letter to bod at the london branch .
dear bod .
i have personal knowledge that one of your duties, at the london branch is to monitor this discussion board as well as freeminds and silentlambs .
You would hope there are more men of honor and integrity that are willing to stand up for what is right. And then there are those who use "wait on Jehovah" to excuse their own inactivity and as an excuse to just let people suffer. The easy course is to just go along with the organization that is paying your way. I mean who wants to lose all their friends and be out on the streets?
I don't know how some people can sleep at night. What goes around comes around though.
Path
I think even many JW's in certain circles will see these as desperate efforts to control and censor the means by which JW's communicate and will not have the desired effect especially on those already on the internet who probably have somewhat exposed themselves to arguments from "the other side".
I wonder if the passing on of "false information" and the measure of accountability for the damage it causes applies with equal weight to "God's channel of communication" and all of the damage it has caused by "false information" - false prophecies, false hopes and expectations, bad policies and bad advice.
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ethics panel discusses blood policy of watchtower bible & tract society and jehovah's witnesses refusing lifesaving treatment .
the oncologist journal of august 2002 contains an interesting discussion between a panel of medical professionals on the subject of jehovah's witnesses refusing blood therapies.. this article focuses on a witness woman who refused some blood therapies but was convinced by her congregation elders that it was okay to accept bovine hemoglobin therapy.
realizing the glaring inconsistency of bovine hemoglobin being acceptable in the face of prohibiting other blood therapies like red cell infusion, one physician said,.
I thought the article was good because it showed the frustration of the medical community with the inconsistent JW position. It also showed the spirit with which the care is provided and the sadness at their helplessness mingled with admiration and respect for even an incomprehensible position.
There is a general distrust among JW's regarding doctors and the matter of blood- a feeling that somehow doctors are trying to push some sort of harmful and unnecessary treatment on them.
Somewhere along the line the picture has become so distorted that they actually believe that physicians do not have their best interests at heart and that the medical community is out to poison the masses with blood carrying AIDS and heppatitis.
You have to respect the sort of conviction where an individual will go the full limit for what he believes in. It is just sad when those convictions are not based on a full understanding of the bigger picture and when life is sacrificed because of a handful of people that won't come clean and say they made a mistake. I think the article conveyed that pain and frustration very well. Thanks for sharing it.
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ok, it seems like we need to start setting up some rules and regulations as 'common sense' doesn;t seem to work for everyone.. rule 1. no personal attacks / insults.
feel free to submit any rules (or guidelines) that you think would help.
Make sure you note the date of when this thread was originally posted. It is over 2 years old.
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edited by - ranchette1 on 22 august 2002 11:30:46.
Not even the marriage bed is beyond the Watch Tower's purview.Brown said Witnesses believe that sexual activity between men and women should "follow the normal course" of things. "We feel that oral or anal intercourse would go beyond that."
Couples are often counseled accordingly before marriage, Brown said. Guilt-ridden Witnesses have gone before judicial committees to confess wayward sex acts with their spouses.
Path
ok, it seems like we need to start setting up some rules and regulations as 'common sense' doesn;t seem to work for everyone.. rule 1. no personal attacks / insults.
feel free to submit any rules (or guidelines) that you think would help.
2 years later... not much has changed really.. more people and Pathofthorns has long given up on Christianity...And whatever happened to "Friend"?
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i recently got an email from mr. moe.
amongst other things, she says that she hated df'ing when she was a dub, so she abhores the banning of certain posters from this site, because it seems so similar to df'ing.. i think her opinion is of great value and warrants looking at closely.
is suspending someone for the contents of their posts justifiable then?
I think we have to ask ourselves if the WT really was justified in many or even most cases where they disfellowshipped people for not following their rules.
We all signed up and accepted the terms of membership the same as we did here. When we no longer wished to abide by the terms we agreed to , we had to go elsewhere. After all, it wasn't our organization so who were we to insist that we could break the rules and stay?
Should not the WT be able to protect it's members from the corrupting and unwholesome and upsetting influence of others who don't agree with the rules and insist upon breaking them?
In all honesty, i do think the WT was justified in disfellowshipping many people. Not the shunning but the excommunication. Those were the terms we accepted. Disfellowshipping is not what it once was, but the result of a natural progression from minimal rules and penalties to a multitude of rules and harsher penalties.
Sure Simon can set the rules and the penalties. Sure we can go elsewhere (but where else would we go? lol) I just think it should always be kept in mind the natural progression rules and censorship leads to. It leads to more rules and less freedom and ultimately everything we disliked about the WT.
The WT eventually stopped trusting in people and began viewing them with suspicion, that basically they would do bad if they could. They were viewed as people needing to be controlled through rules since without rules it would be a free-for-all. I just hope this place doesn't stop trusting in people.
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in our eagerness to highlight all thats wrong with jehovahs witnesses i some times wonder if we go too far.
there are many good points to be made about flaws and problems amoung jehovahs witnesses.but sometimes there just seems to be a bit of nit picking,exagerrated acusations, pointing out problems that apply to virtualy any person or group and making it seem like its only applies to witnesses.
also sometimes we fail to seperate the general witnesses and those in charge when criticising the society.
I agree with what you wrote and we could be more precise in our comments, sometimes less extreme etc. But sometimes you have to hit people over the head with bold comments to get through the blindness that a high control religion causes people to have.
.But sometimes there just seems to be a bit of nit picking,exagerrated acusations, poniting out problems that apply to virtualy any person or group and making it seem like its only applies to witnesses.
I think the Witnesses have been known for doing the exact same thing to other religions, particularly the Catholic Church. When the shoe is on the other foot and they are "victims" of exactly what they've dished out for decades they cry "persecution". The way I see it, as long as our facts are accurate they deserve everything they get.
No other religion could live up the the JW's ridiculous standards. And when they are exposed for not living up to their own standards they call it "nitpicking" and say "we're imperfect"? Give me a break.
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i was wondering if any one you know has gotten their family back by showing them proofs of watchtower's un membership or regi u.s. inc (owned 50% by watchtower) fabricating engines for war machines?
my dear friend is about to do it and i am quite skeptical they will believe this and snap out of this shunning.. respectfuly,.
gerry
The very attempt to prove the WT "wrong" often has the opposite effect than the individual intends. Usually it results in more shunning and is a confirmation that you are an "apostate".
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and get on with living a happy life and allow their own frustrations with a collapsing religion take their toll. Dropping subtle comments over an extended period of time stretching into years might help.
Lots depends on the person you are helping out of the WT. If they have made up their mind to stay at all costs then you are just wasting your time.
Path
