Posts by Pathofthorns

121

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty in

jw
friends

this may have been a topic before on the board.

it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

Pathofthorns

Simon,

You have not tolerated *personal attacks* on Bill or Silentlambs by persons in the past. Are you tolerating *personal attacks* on Ray Franz just because who is making them?

Ray has no online presence and is in many respects the "holy grail" of the xjw community. He was a GB member and therefore harmed persons, however he has possibly helped more persons out of the cult than anyone. These attacks are unacceptable and your response is the equivelent of making excuses and turning a blind eye - and that's hypocrisy.

Had Fred Hall or You Know or any pro JW person made these statements he'd be looking at being banned, and you know it.

Path

121

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty in

jw
friends

this may have been a topic before on the board.

it would be suprising if anyone else as not thought of this.. with regards to the 5 governing body members who have been named as child abusers.

would ray franz be able to confirm these aligations?

Pathofthorns

If I was Ray, I would certainly be happy these days to have distanced myself from the Silentlambs movement. It would seem that while it is striving for something worthwhile, support for it seems to be coming with alot of strings attached.

Ray wrote alot of how organizations start out with good intentions but how they inevitably seem to corrupt. I wouldn't put it past him that he chose to stay away from something given what many have interpreted as causes for concern.

You also need to keep in mind that this whole child abuse thing within the organization has taken quite a while for many to grasp, including myself. The policy does seem somewhat reasonable on the surface and maybe Ray hasn't explored it in full detail. Maybe he has long moved on from Jehovah's Witnesses? Who knows?

All I can say is that Bill is quickly undoing his own support very quickly and whatever good he has accomplished. Demands for "loyalty oaths" and calling people names for not agreeing 100% with him is way out of line - and now this with Ray Franz? Give me a break.

Path

6

Justice #24b - Flock Book & Matt. 18

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the "flock" book recommends using matt.

18, and in that i believe it to be correct, that is, if one is to follow christian principles ... but ... the hard realities of jw life do not lend themselves well to this application ... here is what the "flock: book states:applying jesus' counsel on handling certain wrongs.

some accusations involve minor misunderstandings that should be handled on a personal basis.

Pathofthorns

I believe that 99% of the issues in the congregation could be solved among individuals without involvement of the Elders ... but for some reason, Matthew 18 is rarely applied as Jesus recommended.

This is something I noticed too and was rather vocal about many times. There is something about JW culture that drives elders to get involved in so many trivialities that just bog them down and make mountains out of molehills.

Path

67

Have you read my experience in the Awake?Read this

by ELON14 in

jw
friends

many of you already know my real name.i'm the one whose experience was published in the sep 8 1994 awake mag.

i would like to stress that although i have good reason to be angry and bitter, nothing i say here is said in anger but only in sadness.

i write this to say that if i could take back many of my words i said in that experience , i would.

Pathofthorns

This article was posted on this site earlier in the year i think when events surrounding your son's disappearance surfaced. I'm very sorry for your loss.

I wonder how much of the WT's written material over the years was written by persons who have now left the WT. It is a sad irony when you think about it.

Path

66

Hillary Step

by JT in

jw
friends

.

hey man ck your email you are over the limit i tried to email you, hit me at .

Pathofthorns

I don't see this as "bickering that only helps the evil GB". I see it as a responsible thing for a group of persons to be able to critique itself. Only dishonest people cover over a problem.

Good luck Hillary... *although I think you won't be the one that really needs it.

Path

21

Oregon Lawsuit News Coverage

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

suit targets jehovahs witnesses

benton complaint about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds across the u.s.. .

the setup is such that the elders are the voice of the watchtower, and the watchtower is the voice of christ.

Pathofthorns

I wish Vicki Boer's lawyer spent more time exploring what "free choice" means in JW land. Simply being "free to call the authorities" presents a misleading picture of the reality.

I wonder how the WT explains why JW males don't wear beards, why most JW's "choose" not to vote, why they don't celebrate birthdays or why so few went on to get higher education etc when none of these things are supposedly "forbidden"?

The whole culture of being a JW has to be transferred into the minds of judges and juries so they can get a clear picture of reality and how jw's have been conditioned and influenced to act a certain way.

I thought Quote's illustration of the baby elephant that is chained to a post in the ground was good. When that elephant grows up and could easily rip out the post from the ground he simply doesn't because of the psychological conditioning he's had from a baby.

"Free choice" often has consequences and reprocussions in the congregation if one chooses what goes against the conditioned conciences of the majority.

JT's comments regarding "what way is the society LEANING" on a certain matter give insight into what drives elders and CO's to react a certain way to situations that arrise - even when things are not plainly spelled out in print.

Perhaps having good arguments and lines of reasoning made available to lawyers will help them better anticipate and counter the reasoning of WT lawyers. Just as all JW's will compare a blood transfusion to being raped for emotional impact, perhaps we need to have a few well thought out lines of our own to help non-JW's truly understand JW culture.

Path

13

How Much to Reveal to JWs?

by patio34 in

i just spoke to an old friend from the jws.

we live in separate states and she does not know that i have left.

i faked it okay, but if she thinks about it, she will sense the subtle differences and my not-so-deft switch of conversation away from jw-type things.

Pathofthorns

I don't think a person can keep up a charade indefinitely. Eventually you either get caught pretending or you get tired of faking it.

I have found simply stating that you are "taking a break" from the routine works well in many cases. But it is good to avoid saying too much as to why.

I just say I felt I needed to take one and that I feel quite good getting away from all the politics and stresses. You might have to take a few lectures but they often find themselves in a difficult spot trying to get you to go back to the misery they so often hate as well.

Path

66

Hillary Step

by JT in

jw
friends

.

hey man ck your email you are over the limit i tried to email you, hit me at .

Pathofthorns

: where is hillary?
Assholes chased him away. Assholes like to do stuff like that.

It would seem from his comments in another thread that he was hoping to reduce his involvement in xjw affairs for quite some time now. Reading between the lines, perhaps that combined with private comments from some (Bill Bowen?) that disagreeing with some tactics of Bill is the equivelent of not supporting the "cause" were what finally caused him to take his leave?

I don't think HS is the sort that would allow anyone to "chase him away" let alone have "assholes" dictate his behavior, but the sort of person who has enough pride to not tolerate disrespect and childishness from persons that should know better. I respect his not being a "team player". He's a good man and I hope he will be back.

Path

3

A special thanks to silent lambs

by kelsey007 in

jw
friends

mr bowen- though i do not agree to some of your ways, you have made a dent and you are doing something.

true, from where you sit- i am doing nothing.

i, like most here, applaud your efforts.

Pathofthorns

Nice post. I share your sentiments.

Path

18

Elders to discuss Rand Cam - Info Req'd

by KAYTEE in

2 elders are visiting us next friday 11 oct.. i urgently need some information on how i can obtain original documents regarding the rand cam shares.. i have printed out loads of earlier discussions from this forum, (thanks to everyone involved for all the hard work) but i need to have some authentic material on hand, because that's obviously what they are going to ask for.

does anyone have a phone number where i can obtain this information ?

time is running out !

Pathofthorns

I guess you should ask yourself why you are even discussing these things with them. If it's for some sort of personal need, something you feel you must do, then great. Just accept that you are now alerting them to your 'apostasy' and be prepared for the outcome. I wouldn't think for a minute you can change them just by showing them some 'evidence'.

They are not coming to this meeting with an open mind. They want to help YOU and not the other way around.

Path