i just received this email: ----- original message ----- from: <[email protected]>to: <[email protected]>sent: tuesday, november 12, 2002 11:41 amsubject: sad news.
> announcement.
> silentlambs was found dead this morning at 5.00am.
I didn't rate the thread a 5 but noticed that someone had done that as well. I wouldn't assume that the individual was implying he was hopeful for any tragedy but that the person felt the topic was important and deserved attention.
(and thanks for making that phone call cassi. it was appreciated)
Path
Edited by - Pathofthorns on 12 November 2002 6:59:13
i just received this email: ----- original message ----- from: <[email protected]>to: <[email protected]>sent: tuesday, november 12, 2002 11:41 amsubject: sad news.
> announcement.
> silentlambs was found dead this morning at 5.00am.
Glad to hear he is well.
Path
i just received this email: ----- original message ----- from: <[email protected]>to: <[email protected]>sent: tuesday, november 12, 2002 11:41 amsubject: sad news.
> announcement.
> silentlambs was found dead this morning at 5.00am.
It seems unusual for such a statement to be issued without any further information. I hope someone can clarify this quickly.
Path
in my country there are one office in the branch who's named service desk.
this service desk is in charge of all the judicial affairs.
this experience happened almost 2 years ago, and is related with child abuse.
I feel Bill Bowen is unreasonable when he is labelling say a 16 year old that has sex with a 14 year old a "child molester" or an "abuser". Many of these laws on the books are old and do not accurately reflect the reality that is taking place presently in modern society. These laws often exist in case the daughter's father wants to pursue the matter legally, but I would think many police would not actively investigate and pursue these matters unless they were specifically asked to do so.
Society in general does not equate consenting sex between two young people (close to the same age) where they may not legally meet the age requirements set out by the law on the same level as a pedophile or a child abuser. For the sake of credibility and reasonableness I think it is important that a distinction is made and I don't find fault with the Society in doing so.
Path
if the local congregations have no money to pay their own bills and the numbers of witnesses continue to drop off, how will the society last?
we've heard about down sizing and layoffs.
we've seen congregations merge because the bills aren't getting paid.
It has been stated by some CO's that when members of a congregation are not happy it first shows up in a lack of contributions. If this happens on a world-wide scale it could present problems for them.
I see more unhappy JW's but most not unhappy to the point where they actually leave the religion. A large membership failing to contribute due to discontent, while at the same time active enough to put a drain their resources is probably what is already happening and may be largely responsible for their cost cutting measures.
Many JW's are turning more attention to their personal finances as many more face an unplanned retirement. I can't see young people having any desire to contribute financially to them and many JW's simply don't have the disposible income due to lower incomes from following their bad advice on not getting an education. Many also are hopelessly in debt and burdened with mental/emotional problems from years of pioneering and disappointments from an "end" that never materialized.
JW's are facing a crisis from all angles imo and money is just one significant area where they are in trouble. I think it is just a waiting game at this point and in a few more years everything will collapse inward to Patterson.
Path
whether raised jws or we joined at some point in life, we learned to regard patriotism as wrong, part of the devil's system of things.
if we became jws between the mid-1960s and mid-1970s, we had additional social influence to regard patriotism as wrong, as being duped by the elite politicians who use citizens for cannon fodder in wars, or other nationalistic pursuits.
the hippie movement was partly a catalyst that spawned many anti-war, hence, anti-usa government, hence anti-patriotism movement in this country.
As a Canadian, I rarely hear the term "patriotism" except in an American context. Most here tend to love where they live (although we complain about the weather (and the Leafs) and criticize our politicians alot ).
I think our perspective is more global and we think more in terms of our place in a world community opperating in harmony with the United Nations. Since our military is a joke we have no delusions of trying to "save the world" by interfering militarily outside of the UN in the business of other countries.
Beer and hockey is pretty much patriotism here, and while that sounds pretty simplistic and maybe a bit funny, it probably is not too far off from the way it is. War has not really been on our minds here, but we have generally shook our heads as we watched the US piss away world sympathy for 9/11 by too much talk of unilateral action for an Iraq invasion instead of working with the UN like it finally did due to political pressures. And seeing all of these patriotic Americans hand over their civil liberties in the interests of a "war on terrorism" seems like a step backwards and pretty "unpatriotic" to me.
Patriotism imo is a valuable tool of government in times of war or crisis to limit your criticism of them and your objectivity of their actions. The worse thing that can happen for them is too much of the population saying "hey, this is not right" and then protesting and hindering what their government wants to do.
And how else could young men be preached into battle and for mothers to see their sons die? Never mind thinking about it or asking questions, you love your country right?
I understand love of country, but I don't think I will ever understand American patriotism. It just seems too blind and irrational.
Path
i am curious how everyone feels about this subject.. if a family member or another person comes to see you, because they know you know something about jw's, how much should you tell them?.
should you tell everything you know or point them to books to read.............the bible, coc, true believer, etc?
this would be so they could read it for themselves.. if you no longer believe in god or the bible, or both, should you tell them this too?.
I wouldn't think telling them you no longer believe in God/Bible would be "productive".
imo, the most effective thing is to be there when they want to talk. Don't answer all their questions directly but help them to answer their own questions by asking them questions.
Discourage them from following you, but help the appreciate the beauty in learning and the freedom to make their own choices.
Path
i will never be able to say what i know in my heart.
to those who need to hear it.. i am so sorry i ever tried to raise my child as a jehovah's.
witness.
That is a good post metatron. Too bad so many JW parents realize the truth of this when it is too late.
It is easy to blame the kids and they do have a measure of responsibility for their actions. But at some point when many follow the Society's advice on family life but cannot seem to turn out "ideal" children, then you have to start looking at whether that advice is really all it's cracked up to be.
It would seem the more "spiritual" the parents are and the more they endeavor to follow WT suggestions, the worse off their families turn out to be. In the short term their children are on stage giving experiences and everyone is wearing their plastic smiles and all seems good. In the long run, the marriage is in trouble and the kids are out of the "truth".
Path
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?brd=1614&dept_id=161052&newsid=6011345&pag=461&rfi=9
banned church member sues jehovah's witnesses .
by brian justice, the sunday news staff writer november 09, 2002 .
Mrs. Anderson says in the lawsuit that she can "no longer pursue her work to assist Jehovah's Witnesses who are child abuse victims because they are prohibited from speaking to a disfellowshipped person. "This has caused irreparable harm to victims who are barred from taking to her."
It will be interesting to see what results from pursuing this particular angle.
I am also interested regarding the statement that "the Anderson's are members of Silentlambs" and what constitutes "membership" in a general sense.
Anyway, good luck to you both.
Path
both my husband and i got ours this week.
it seems the supply is limited again this season.
he didn't have any side affects, but my arm has been hurting since yesterday.
I find the paranoia over the flu shot amusing as well. JW's tend to be overly critical of conventional medicine while going overboard on the vitamins and other non-conventional stuff. Like Sam said, this could be left over JW thinking where vaccinations were viewed as bad, organ transplants were cannibalism and where we believed trained doctors were trying to kill us with blood transfusions.
Much of people's fears surrounding the flu shot are based on myth. I got mine 5 days ago. For me it just makes good business sense if you work for yourself to try to avoid days off due to sickness.
Path
