this observation came to mind in a related thread on cultural changes in the jw community over the years, as the organization evovles from a feisty, intensely radical, militant band of `theocratic warriors'' to a more maintream religion.. as the passage of time has eroded almost all of the plausibilty in the chronological component of their message (remember how big a part of our preaching was ``doing the 1914 drill'' -- you know: 2,520 minus 607, plus no zero year = 1914; ask yourselves how few modern and younger jws can do this by rote nowadays), teh focus has shifte to ``ain't we the greatest?
almost every wt issue runs articles featurng sanitized, idealized, versions of aspects of their modern history.
jws in the concentration camps, the atlanta penitenitary for rutherford and his gang, praise from public officials for jw comportment at assemblies, quick-build kingdom halls, disaster relief for their own kind, lifestyle makeovers, the experiences of oldtimers who unapologetically squandered a lifetime living in nomadic, vagabond poverty out of a suitcase or shuttered away in bethel or a missionary home, etc., ad ininitum, ad nauseum.
Thanks Rm 215 for that review of the WT. I haven't looked at one for some time (for fear of falling down the rabbit hole again!).
They've done the 'critical times" and 'last days' to death. You can only keep people on the edge so long. So now they're in a new mode. Or maybe they got some new writers.
You're right, self-praise becomes insufferable. And boring. But, JWs (myself included in the past), will put up with it, looking for meaning in every word.
Pat
finally, after almost a month, i get a response from my mother about the un.
for those who didnt see her original letter and my response, just click on the sheet of paper icon in my profile and you can catch up on this.. i will place my comments in italics and names will be replaced in parentheses.. .
dear ranchette,.
Dear Ranchette,
My sympathies and all of us here know exactly the frustration you are feeling.
I had an unsolicited e-mail from my JW son. Mind you, I never have brought up this UN thing or much else. In his e-mail, he stated that it "made him sad that I had taken a stand against the witnesses." !! I was sputtering for a whole day before I answered it.
I told him an apology was due and that my thoughts were personal and private. It was not up to him to decide that I was the worst thing he could call me in 'witness-ese.' I was very upset.
I can imagine his reaction if I actually brought up any of the news about the WTS!
Best wishes,
Pat
i've been thinking why a few here buy into things such as the illuminati conspiracies, or secret alien takeovers of our society, the masons taking over the world, and other far-fetched ideas.
i'm sure there are an abundant number of reasons for this, some of which apply to people in general.
but i think there are factors that are unique to those who have left high-control groups such as the wts.
Hi Seeker,
Carl Sagan says in "Broca's Brain" that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." And, as you state, there is none.
I think some fall for the wild claims made because they want to believe in SOMETHING, especially after leaving the WTS. As you said, you would like to believe, but only if there is proof.
I, myself, would be happy to find out there was a god and an afterlife, and hope, but there is no proof. I won't waste any more of my life looking for salvation when there are so many potholes in the 'evidence' of god and the Bible.
On reflection, I don't think I ever was a 'true believer' in the WTS, even though I did it for 28 years. I wonder how many are like I was.
I'm in the camp of show me the proof, not testimonials. But many just need something to believe in, I guess.
Pat
http://news.excite.com/news/r/011019/08/odd-sharia-dc.
lagos (reuters) - a nigerian muslim sharia court has sentenced a nursing mother to death by stoning after she was convicted of adultery, a nigerian newspaper reported on friday.. the court in sokoto state in northern nigeria convicted safiya hussaini for adultery and ordered she be stoned to death once she has finished weaning her baby, state-owned daily times newspaper said.. the court acquitted yakubu abubakar whom hussaini said made her pregnant.
she has 30 days to appeal the sentence.. sokoto government officials were not immediately available for comment.
Closer,
Thanks for that sad story. It certainly is reminiscent of the Bible.
Tina,
I agree with your points.
PorkChop, if there is a law in the United States that the punishment is prison for burglary, then it is most reasonable, IMO, to deduce it was carried out. You say that there aren't citations of stonings, but there aren't many citations of the other laws too.
Above all else, it's the supposed law of God who gave it.
It was brutal and to see that some still have such laws is shocking to reasonable persons today.
Pat
are you currently inactive?
i am.. think of the fun we could have!
surprise everyone at your kh by turning up on sunday morning for the 'ministry' - who would ask to work with you?!.
Well, Nicolaou, that's an original, unique thought! Let us know how it goes, okay?
Pat
some posters to this board, who perhaps are bored posters, have been out of the wts for a long while, some for decades.
i think i understand why you still feel the need to meet here but just wished to hear from you personally.. how long have you been out?
why do you still feel the need to discuss and involve yourselves with jw issues?
Hi Hillary-Step,
Thanks for asking. I have been out for 7 months. This board gave me the socialization with people whom I could finally voice my doubts to.
But, more than that, it's people I can relate to--like veterans of a war. We have a similar background and can really empathize with each other.
Also, the camaraderie is more prevalent because of a common interest in JW issues and problems.
I work all the time, have a health condition that keeps me home much of the evenings, so it's very hard to build a new social circle. This board helps fill the bill by providing social interaction.
It has meant a lot to me and will continue to, I'm sure.
Pat
cus i told him to!
har!!.
people sometimes wonder why, if i created puny humans in my image, i don't have a sense of humor in the bible.
You Know,
This is the 1st time I've replied to your posts, but this one got me thinking.
The way you put it is the laughing by Jehovah of the Bible and his worshippers is at the impending deaths of billions of people, including babes, children, and handicapped.
That's your idea of a sense of humor?
That speaks volumes for the JWs like you--but I know they aren't all like you--openly at least.
Pat
the first creation story .
in the first part of genesis, the writer tells us that the animals were created before man: .
25 god made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds.
Dear Joseph,
You do much work on the Bible. However, it seems to me that you're off base on this one. From a cursory reading, after Gen. 2:18 it goes on to describe the creation of Eve; which is related to the statement that Adam was lonely. And that he may have created the animals beforehand, but was just now bringing them to Adam for naming.
I do think there are many errors in the Bible, but this is not one of them, IMO.
Pat
jan. you said on a recent post that the book of daniel is meant to be dated a lot later then thought.
have you any info on this please?.
uo
Jan H and Moxy,
Your posts are going in the keeper file for me! Thanks.
I enjoy reading these, as does PeacePipe, but I concur with him/her as far as delving into it deeply myself. My bent is evolution right now.
Have a great day!
Pat
i thought that this was all out of the way when 2 weeks ago my wife & i handed in letters of disassociation.. we have been since then trying to adjust & just when i thought i was getting somewhere - starting to feel normal again - i got a phone call 1hr ago from our presiding overseer saying that they haven't announced it yet & wanted to talk.. he is a very nice guy & i was caught totally unprepared so i put him off - said i would ring back later - 2pm'ish uk time.. now i have that horrible feeling in my stomach again - help!.
basically, when it comes down to it i don't think we want them to come over - it will open us up too much & i don't want that.. also, though, i want to sort it out; so i am thinking of just chatting to him for a bit on the phone.. i didn't really want to do this since it could knock their faith & also i am not fully ready to argue all of the facts with elders.
however it looks like i will have to.. anyway when it boils down to it they can argue away all of the facts like the un thing etc.
Steven,
I'm in a similar position, but have put them off with a variety of excuses. They have quit calling (it WAS only 2 tmes). Now, my neighbors who are JWs are starting the shunning, although no letter was turned in nor was I df'd. They think it's never too soon to shun! Some friends!
Richie,
That was such a clever obvservation that if the JWs were offered a way out without shunning (resignation), there would be many that would leave!
Pat
