Bu seriously speaking there is a void. The Trinity is used as a big differentiator and yet there is nothing of substance to defend the position. Had the brochure been good it should have been an indispensible asset. Many of the faithful saw it that way. Many don't know why it isn't available.
flamegrilled
JoinedPosts by flamegrilled
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30
Trinity Brochure
by flamegrilled inhas anybody heard an official reason that the trinity brochure is deceased?.
the gb have been released basically new versions of old brochures with wild abandon, and yet the trinity brochure which has absolutely no equivalent is no longer in print.. why?.
we all know there were dodgy references/quotations therein, but you would think by now the gb would have put some effort into a viable replacement if it were posssible.. nobody seems to be making too much of this as far as i can see.. the trinity brochure was very naughty.
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Trinity Brochure
by flamegrilled inhas anybody heard an official reason that the trinity brochure is deceased?.
the gb have been released basically new versions of old brochures with wild abandon, and yet the trinity brochure which has absolutely no equivalent is no longer in print.. why?.
we all know there were dodgy references/quotations therein, but you would think by now the gb would have put some effort into a viable replacement if it were posssible.. nobody seems to be making too much of this as far as i can see.. the trinity brochure was very naughty.
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flamegrilled
Has anybody heard an official reason that the trinity brochure is deceased?
The GB have been released basically new versions of old brochures with wild abandon, and yet the trinity brochure which has absolutely no equivalent is no longer in print.
Why?
We all know there were dodgy references/quotations therein, but you would think by now the GB would have put some effort into a viable replacement IF IT WERE POSSSIBLE.
Nobody seems to be making too much of this as far as I can see.
The Trinity Brochure was very naughty. I think it has been sent to the corner to think about what it has done. But you would think that it was now about time that the GB had found a way to let it out again under an alter ego - no?
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United Nations mentioned in Watchtower publications
by Magi inhi everyone, i have some questions for anyone that can answer.
i've been doing some research in the whole united nations scandal with the watchtower organization.
and i am wondering what the society's view on the un is as of late.
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flamegrilled
See latest study ed - June 15th 2012 pg 12 - UN is still the eighth king.
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If you've left JWs for Christ - will the end still come?
by flamegrilled insomething i don't see supported much on jwn is the notion that the end of this system is indeed coming, even if later than wts has predicted over the years.. now for those that have left and become complete non-believers (in the bible) that is understandable.
you guys are welcome to comment of course, but i'm far more interested in some feedback from the people who have left jws and pursued a christian course.
are you still convinced that there will be a war of armaggedon or do you now interpret the scriptures a different way?.
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flamegrilled
Now I know why some of those WT questions add the word "Explain" afterwards.
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If you've left JWs for Christ - will the end still come?
by flamegrilled insomething i don't see supported much on jwn is the notion that the end of this system is indeed coming, even if later than wts has predicted over the years.. now for those that have left and become complete non-believers (in the bible) that is understandable.
you guys are welcome to comment of course, but i'm far more interested in some feedback from the people who have left jws and pursued a christian course.
are you still convinced that there will be a war of armaggedon or do you now interpret the scriptures a different way?.
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flamegrilled
Something I don't see supported much on JWN is the notion that the end of this system is indeed coming, even if later than WTS has predicted over the years.
Now for those that have left and become complete non-believers (in the Bible) that is understandable. You guys are welcome to comment of course, but I'm far more interested in some feedback from the people who have left JWs and pursued a Christian course. Are you still convinced that there will be a war of armaggedon or do you now interpret the scriptures a different way?
If you do still think the end is coming, then where do you feel that JWs have got things wrong in their interpretation of events (not timing, but rather the things that will actually occur)?
If you don't think that such an event is looming then how do you read all of the prophecies that JWs interpret this way? In particular alongside all of Jesus' other warnings the wording at Luke 21:34,35. For any that would answer that all this applies to Jerusalem in 1st century only, how do the subsequent visions of Revelation fit?
FG
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
Tammy - just so I understand do you think that the NT is inspired, or some of it, or none of it? I note you quote 1 John, but seem to imply that Paul was acting with good motive, but maybe not exactly according to what Christ had in mind. Did I understand that correctly? If so I am not asking so as to disagree or criticize. I myself have wondered when Paul says in one place "I say, not the Lord" (can't remember where). It would just help me if I understood your perspective on the NT as the inspired word of God or not.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
N.Drew - I'm giving that some thought. For example the elders are told to "Shepherd the flock of God under your care" which must refer to the people in the congregation - no? But I can't think of anywhere it says "be caretakers for God's word" or something along those lines.
Similarly the Christians were told to be "obedient to those taking the lead among you", which again seems to put the emphasis on elders looking after the congregation and setting an example.
Could you give me an example of the scriptrues that you believe put more emphasis on elders just keeping the word pure over time? I'd like to see that and give it some more thought.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
N.Drew - regardless of the strict definition of "forsake" I think most would understand that it means not to abandon something. Evidently the NT doesn't lay down a certain number of meetings per week/month/year, but the idea of regularity is surely inherant in "all the more so as you behold the day drawing near." (it's funny thinking about that that one meeting got cut even though the day must be nearer). I think I'm finding it difficult to exactly grasp some of your application of that passage. I prefer a simple reading, but I will give it some more thought.
As to the purpose of the congregation being to "preserve the word through the ages", I don't think that is stated anywhere, and I don't see any evidence that a "congregation" has been successful at doing that from the intervening period between Christ and now. Do you have some scriptural reasoning to identify that as the purpose? I would be interested to understand that. It seems to me that the "inciting to love and fine works" is more intrinsic to the purpose, and that would apply all the more so nearer the conclusion of the system of things.
miles3 - Of course I accept that my questions are presented from with my own frame of reference, and that is shaped by external influences (including in part WT teachings). In principle that is true of all of us. To imply however that I am unable to analyse the scripture in any form of objective manner is wrong. You may feel that way, but that is without knowing me personally, so it would seem to be an unfair judgement. If some of my conclusions coincide with WTS teachings that does not automatically make them wrong. That would be unless we could categorically say that EVERY WTS teaching is wrong (just because). I would say that someone who took that view would have to be able to somehow justify that as a blanket statement, otherwise it is just as narrow minded as someone who accept all WTS teachings as correct (just because)
Tammy - I still feel that "gathering together" is a form of command. "Command" just might a negative connotation because it sounds like a "demand", so maybe there is a better way of describing it because nether word occurs in relation to congregation meetings. But it is similar to when a parent might ask their child to do something that will strongly benefit them if they do, and have a serious negative effect if they do not. Is that a command? Well from the parent's point of view (if he/she is a good parent) the child's actions are not optional. But it might still be presented as a strong plee or request, and if the child is correctly motivated he/she will see it as non-optional. I think that encouragement to gather is a bit like that.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
Tammy - I would do my best. But one could imagine extreme circumstances about anything. What if you were the guy James Franco played in 127 hours? Would you normally choose to go without food and water for several days? Would you choose to cut your arm off with a blunt knife? So I don't feel that imagining an extreme circumstance tells us much about what we "should" be doing as Chrsitians on a day to day basis when all the normal facets of life are available to us.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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flamegrilled
ShadesofGrey - Food for thought indeed. Was it just a problem with a mix up in dates? Not according to Jer 28:16. It seems to me that the big problem was that Jehovah had told the Israelites that they would have to serve Babylon for the full period, and Hananiah said they would not. In chapter 27 the Israelites were told to submit to the yoke of Babylon, and Hananiah said "be cool guys - everythings going to be okay without this submission business". It seems to me that what was at stake was a direct revolt against the command of God, not a slight temporal mix-up. I understand the parallel you are trying to draw. I just don't think the same principle is at stake. Hananiah downplayed the word of God. If anything WTS has kept the expectation of God's word cranked up a little too high too prematurely, but the ultimate message appears to be correct. And the premature enthusiasm may have indeed served a purpose. Here I am playing some advocacy to WTS teachings, but I fully acknowledge as already stated that it is not without error - I just can't class it as "revolt".