Posts by Phizzy

35

The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

according to mathew 6:9 jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " you must pray, then this way "our father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ..... which rank & file jehovah`s witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of god namely jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed christendom has kept that name away from the general public.. not true ,raymundus martinus a spanish catholic monk of the 13th-14th century first coined that name for god and it has been used in and on churches throughout christendom in the world ever since.. true christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about jesus christ which is what the new testament is all about,not jehovah god, but jesus christ .

phillipians 2 :9-11. in the new testament ,( cgs ) jesus christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of the apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. the new testament ,christian greek scriptures are all about bearing witness about jesus christ and after his time of bringing back people under his kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.. that is the message of the"kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" published by the wtb&ts ,says..

Phizzy

Thank you PP, for a very good Post, it is not something I have not thought about before, but it is very doubtful that the N.T writers would have consulted what would have been very old MS of the Septuagint, even in their time, and yet it is clear that the Septuagint is the version they quote from most times. ( there is evidence of other influences on their writing, in one or two places).

But, the practice was to discard old MS, use the newest, hence the older MS have been found placed in "storage" out of respect for them, but at the time of placement they were redundant.

As you say though, if YHWH were there in what they read, or perhaps they wrote it too, it would not have been an issue, as I said too in an earlier Post.

In view of your Post above, there is more doubt that it ever was there.

15

Jehovah always used an earthly organization

by Reazon22 in

i’ve always heard this line used by many witnesses.

but when i asked what organization was he using previously i can never get a response until recently.

i was told about a group called “the way”.

Phizzy

When you look at a lot of Scripture, Old and New Testament, you see quite plainly that the people claiming to be god's Org at the time were apparently no such thing.

Hence Old testament Prophets had to be sent time and again to steer Israel on the right path, those claiming to be god's org, the priests etc had failed. And in the N.T we have first John the Baptist, then Jesus, then Paul.

It seems that for the majority of History those claiming to be god's Org were Charlatans, as are the G.B of JW org today.

35

The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

according to mathew 6:9 jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " you must pray, then this way "our father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ..... which rank & file jehovah`s witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of god namely jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed christendom has kept that name away from the general public.. not true ,raymundus martinus a spanish catholic monk of the 13th-14th century first coined that name for god and it has been used in and on churches throughout christendom in the world ever since.. true christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about jesus christ which is what the new testament is all about,not jehovah god, but jesus christ .

phillipians 2 :9-11. in the new testament ,( cgs ) jesus christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of the apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. " " none of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of god ever.. the new testament ,christian greek scriptures are all about bearing witness about jesus christ and after his time of bringing back people under his kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.. that is the message of the"kingdom interlinear of the christian greek scriptures" published by the wtb&ts ,says..

Phizzy

I think the argument about whether Jesus actually used/enunciated the name will continue. I think the JW Org reasoning on the closest pronunciation for YHWH being Jehovah in English, and of course Yehovah or similar in many other tongues that do not use the hard "J" is soundly based.

Of course one thing to remember is that Jesus actually spoke Aramaic, so in his actual usage of the Name (assuming he did) it would sound nothing like Yehowah or Yehovah.

So, we come back to the again sound argument of JW Org that in English Jehovah is recognized for what it is, the commonly known English rendition of YHWH.

The other argument as to whether the name was written in the Autograph copies will never be solved or concluded, unless an Autograph copy were found, as likely as me winning the Lottery methinks !

Again, I rather favour the idea that it probably was, it is certainly plainly there in the Qumran MS. so why would the Gospel writers and more importantly perhaps Paul ( the earliest Christian writer), shy away from writing it ?

Then we come back again to the old argument, when reading the Text, did the readers pronounce the name, or substitute something ?

By the time the Gospels were written the Christian outreach was to Gentiles, having failed to convert many Jews, so, again why not actually pronounce the Name ? Nobody would be offended, except a very strict Jew perhaps,who was now Christian, but their being offended could be dealt with no doubt.

I am rarely, if ever before ??, in the position of defending the JW Org position, but we have to take the scholarly consensus on all this.

19

Brothers Saying PIMO Things In Talks

by APieceOfShitNamedTate in

jw
friends

i've been paying very close attention to talks ever since waking up.

i probably pay more attention now than i ever did while i was sleeping.

anyway, i think there are a lot of brothers who are awake, and they try their best to go against the grain while up on that stage.

Phizzy

When I first woke up I slipped a number of things in to answers, one I remember doing was the Orgs involvement in the U.N as a N.G.O

The Bro taking the Meeting looked a bit worried by my words, but could really say nothing as he obviously had no idea about the scandal, so could not gainsay my comment.

I do hope these Speakers are PIMO, and will soon leave, part of my motive for still attending about a year after I woke up was the desire to help others do so, without success it seems.

21

JW Malaise

by Half banana in

malaise according to the cambridge dictionary:.

a general feeling of being ill or having no energy, or an uncomfortable feeling that something is wrong, especially with society, and that you cannot change the situation.

where the dictionary says society, read "the society"........... is there a malaise in the jw world?

Phizzy

" Malaise according to the Cambridge Dictionary:

a general feeling of being ill or having no energy, or an uncomfortable feeling that something is wrong, especially with society, and that you cannot change the situation "

I think I suffered greatly from this when I was in, as did many many others. A lot in my Congregation consulted their Doctor about this, and one said " What is wrong with you people ?" He was getting a disproportionate number of J.W's presenting with the problem.

I think it was the root cause of my ever worsening depression, which only started to get better the day I left. I began to feel true happiness for the first time in my life !

16

Bite Model

by lriddle80 in

jw
friends

has anyone ever shown a jw that came to your door the bite model of a cult?

what happened?

i am thinking of using that strategy if one comes a' knocking..

Phizzy

I have used the BITE definition of the Org's technique to explain quickly to members of the Public how they achieve their extreme control of their members.

Most are astounded that the average J.W puts up with it and does not think for themselves. I have to then explain the actual method used to stop the J.W using her/his reasoning ability.

The Org is an Authoritarian Mind Control group for sure. The average J.W is an unthinking drone, callously controlled and used for making or producing converts and thus more contributors to the continuation of the Scam posing as a religion.

Of course, the Org is not unique, many religions and cults use this method, as does, ( and forgive me for using a hackneyed example), North Korea.

9

Looking for a quote by Francis Crick

by Doug Mason in

page 21 of the watchtower’s 2010 brochure, “the origin of life” says of the biologist.

“francis crick … decided that dna is far too organized to have come about through undirected events”.. i cannot find this quotation being made in writing by crick himself.. the wts’s brochure refers to the book, “the search for extraterrestrial intelligence – a philosophical inquiry”, by david lamb but it is not clear to me that the brochure is saying this view by crick is being cited in lamb's book.. where will i be able to read this statement being made by francis crick?.

and while we are looking at that wts brochure, page 16 makes some interesting claims about teaspoons.

Phizzy

This may help you Doug,

I don't know who wrote the whole Paper this is from, or where I got it from, but I will e-mail you the whole thing, it is an interesting read ! here is the relevant paragraph :

" The concluding paragraphs of this subsection of TOL are devoted to misrepresenting a famous scientist and irrelevantly quoting a well known philosopher. A decades-old book authored by Francis Crick detailing directed panspermia, the idea that genetic material was launched to Earth by intelligent extraterrestrials, is used to erect a weak criticism of any theory about the natural origin of DNA. Crick’s ideas on this subject were never widely accepted among scientists, and even Crick himself later withdrew his criticisms of origin of life research in light of progress in the field. [67] Another poorly aimed rhetorical dart is the anecdotal change of heart by former atheist philosopher Anthony Flew. Flew being a philosopher and not a biologist, his personal views regarding the origin of DNA have little weight in a largely technical scientific discussion." ( Another example of the JW writer deliberately misquoting, i.e obfuscating the argument, or more succinctly, telling lies)

Good to see you are still firing on all cylinders !

39

Why Did You Stay In The JW Religion As Long As You Did?

by minimus in

jw
friends

were you so indoctrinated that you just couldn’t leave?

was it due to family pressure?

was it your friendships that you didn’t want to lose?

Phizzy

I have asked myself that question many times, and fervently wish I had left decades before I did. The Mind Control exercised upon a born in like me is something that is quite incredible.

Questions that one has about the teachings are filed away deep in the recesses of your mind,believing that " Jehovah" will answer them one day, the many glaring faults and sins of individual J.W's are excused as " imperfection" and trust in, and loyalty to, the Governing Body becomes a seemingly natural thing.

Combine the above with the very naive belief that I had that it must be god's Org because it had his name upon it, and perhaps you can allow me some slack for not waking up until I was in my late 50's.

Oh how different, how much better, and happier, my life would have been if I had awoken earlier !

15

07 21 2019 Blondie's First Thoughts (Study WT May 2019 pages 14-19) COMFORT FOR ABUSE VICTIMS?

by blondie in

jw
friends

blondie’s first thoughts review 7-21-2019 wt study (may 2019, pages 14-19 (comfort abuse victims!?).

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/comfort-victims-of-abuse/.

excellent general website: www.jwfacts.com .

Phizzy

Yet again the JW Org demonstrates that they have no love or empathy, and no necessary knowledge or skills for dealing with such a difficult problem as bringing comfort and relief to the poor victims of abuse.

This is an area for expert help, and there seems to be no mention of this in the Article ? ( I have only read Blondie's comments, not the actual Article, I don't want to vomit, so won't read it )

This is SERIOUS , many victims of all types of Abuse, end up with suicidal depression, their lives are at risk !!

The JW Org "advice" is totally, or more accurately criminally, inadequate, and seems simply designed to convince the average JW that the Org cares, which it does not, only about $$$.

52

Is the Governing Body under estimating the volume of those waking up?

by I believe in overlapping in

with all the scandals of the organization, it would .

be sound and logical from a human or strategic viewpoint,.

that they loosen the reins of control and be more honest with its members.

Phizzy

I agree with LV101, the very strict control of information that filters through to the J.W "mind" makes waking up, sadly, a rarity, despite the ease with which JW's could find out the real truth about their org.

The fear of Apostates, and the feeling of being "loyal to Jehovah" means that even when Truth comes to a JW they reject it as " Apostate Lies" or " Persecution".

They are being pressed in many ways though, the frequency of stories about Abuse in the Org, and also the hardening of the Public toward their Door to Door work, which I detect locally, a number of people telling me they are annoyed by the JW presumption that it is O.K to come and shove their religion down the throat of a Householder without an invite.