Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  13

  Serious bible students questions about the bible

  by TTWSYF in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many jws (and others) are serious about their biblical studies, but don't ask the right questions.

  in basic journalism one learns to ask the right questions which in my years here, i've never hear asked.. who, what, where, by what help, by whose help, why, how and when.

  these are all basic questions when researching anything that you want to write an article or paper on what ever related subject.. who wrote/created the bible?.

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  Phizzy

  HTBWC I agree that the influences are clear to see, and I still find studying Ancient Writings, not just those in the various Bibles, but others too, a fascinating thing to do. Even though I am an Atheist too.

  I always ask such questions as " when was this actually written ? what were the religious and other thoughts in those days ? and What is the Writer's agenda ?".

  The last question should not be forgotten, ALL the Bible writers had a particular aim and reason for writing that colours their work, if you do not understand what that is, you cannot successfully understand the work.

  Just one example, The Book of Daniel was written as a political tract, a polemic against Antiochus 1V "Epiphanes", not as a work of Prophecy, the Apocalyptic stuff being there more to safely put the work in that Genre than for it to be an obvious political rant.
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  15

  Most doubts aren't created by apostates. They are created in a Kingdom Hall.

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this interesting perspective on reddit.. post;.

  i remember the moment the first real crack in my faith happened as a jehovah's witness.

  i was sitting in the kingdom hall during the watchtower study where, as is common, the article was talking about how the israelites as a nation abandoned jehovah.. "but wait," i thought, "having a nation represent him here on earth was part of his plan.

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  Phizzy

  I was born in, and over the years came in to contact with a number of Apostates and religious people prepared to show the errors of JW Theology, I had long conversations with Vicars, and once a Bishop, none of these had the desired affect, I was left still a faithful JW.

  Then one day I was simply looking around the K.H at all the folks there , chatting away to each other after the meeting, and the thought came in to my head " What if this is all wrong ? not true ? all of us here would be following the wrong religion!".

  That was the first big crack in my "Spiritual Armour" I guess, just allowing that thought to take shape, and stay with me. Eventually I left because on my own I came to the conclusion that the 1914 teaching was NOT in the Bible.

  It was only after leaving that I was helped by XJW's, that i found others who saw through 1914 and much more !

  The doubt was born in the Kingdom Hall for sure with me !
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  12

  Are JWs still reporting time?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are some little child encouragers at work.. .

  how do they report time since the halls closed?.

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  Phizzy

  Many years ago we had a somewhat strange "sister" in a Congregation about 20 miles away, who refused to report time, she said " It is between me and Jehovah". She did go out on the knock-knocks, just refused to report how much time.

  I presume she was prevailed upon to Report eventually, but I would have loved to have heard the conversations as Elders tried to justify why she had to. She was stroppy enough to counter all there reasons I would have thought.

  Today's 'phoning around means there is even more control, but how can the Elders know how much time you have really spent ? Field Service Reports from most JW's back in my day were really great Works of Fiction, today's must be even more fanciful.

  I do wonder whether all this is adding to the cognitive dissonance which must be felt by JW's to a greater degree these days than it did me all those years ago.

  As Blues said above, they must be aware it is a waste of their time.
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  50

  What would happen if the Watchtower decided no more meeting at Kingdom Halls, only Zoom?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’m seeing my hard core believing relatives slowly losing faith that the watchtower is the organization that “god” is using to represent him on earth.. just about all the churches in their area have opened up.. but not the watchtower.. this is having an affect on the faith of even the old timers.

  now the only ones who are still holding the faith are the female jws and only those past 70 years of age.

  even my old male jw relative past 70 are starting to say that it can’t be jehovah’s organization because the other churches are all open and god supposed organization who is supposed to preach the warning message is still closed with no open in sight.

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  Phizzy

  "According to the Masons, some JWs have joined their lodge." ?????

  That was always a HUGE No-No when I was a J.W. Masons worship a strange god according to JW's not their " Jehoober".

  There will be an item on a Zoom Meeting soon about this, if it is true !
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  28

  What’s Your Opinion On The News Media?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think most of what they cover is accurate?

  do you trust the media , especially mainstream?.

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  Phizzy

  The Left Wing BBC never suggested that Jeremy Corbyn was an antisemite, and by inference the rest of the Party. The Left Wing BBC has done a wonderful job of holding our very Right of Centre Government to account since it was elected.

  Look at the number of times Laura Kuenssburg has put Johnson and various Ministers on the ropes by asking the right questions, about the unnecessary deaths, the late lock Downs, the lack of closing our borders, oh,. how I remember how they squirmed !

  And that Andrew Marr ! so incisive about the £37 billion wasted upon a test and Trace system that didn't work ! and asking where the money has gone ! grilling ministers about giving PPE contracts to their mates , for PPE which never turned up, or when it did was unusable because it was out of date !

  I had forgotten all those news programmes........ er...... did they ever happen ?

  Surely with a left Wing BBC they did ?
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  28

  Which English Translations of the Bible are you Favorites, and Why?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  which english translations of the bible are you favorites, and why?

  my favorites include the (english) revised version bible (of 1881-1885) and its apocrypha (of 1898), the american revised version bible (of 1898, it close to the american standard version), the american standard version bible (of 1901), the new american standard bible - updated edition, the new revised standard version bible with the apocrypha, the complete bible: an american translation (it includes the apocrypha), and the twentieth century new testament.

  i also use others beside those.. they are my favorites because i consider them to be highly accurate, and also they are either very literal (but not so literal as to be hard to understand) or they use functional equivalence.

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  Phizzy

  I have a number of " go to" translations depending upon what I want to know. Do I only want the general thought the Writer wished to convey ?, then an accurate, but readable Version is what I go to, do I want the flavour/meaning of the words as they would have come over in the original language ? then I go to one of the more "literal" Translations.

  If I wish to dig deep as to the Writer's thoughts, a Commentary is useful, often giving the necessary context to the thoughts, the time in which the Writer lived, and religious thought at that time etc, as well as the etymology of words.

  The latter is often illuminating as to the mental picture the words would have evoked in the original audience for the work, and hence the reasons for their use. The RNWT Study Version is probably good for this, the old Version which is all I have was replete with copious and informative Footnotes, but of course, as with any Translation, religious bias often comes in to play, so use a number of reliable Translations.

  Religious bias is often evident in Commentaries too, though usually it is not overt, as the writer is subject to derision from his fellow Scholars if he makes outrageous claims for a particular interpretation of the Text. But the later the Commentary, and usually the Bible Translation, the better, as the people who produce these things are aware of the latest Scholarly consensus. Be aware that Bible Translations and Commentaries can be behind the very latest Scholarly discoveries or thoughts though.
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  47

  The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  despite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".

  below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).

  https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.

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  Phizzy

  " If life - and by extension, humanity - evolved, then the events in Genesis did not actually happen, and by extension, the historicity of the Bible - and ultimately, the legitimacy of Christianity itself - is called into question."

  As someone has pointed out, Religions need to create "Sin" in order to SELL you the way to Salvation from their invented "Sin".

  I remember a conversation I had with an Elder a few months back, we, as two Old Farts were comparing ailments, and he said a lot of it was genetic and all "Adam's fault", I quickly replied " Well, you can go back further in time than that, a number of things we suffer from come from Neanderthals, and they died out 30,000 years ago".

  The silence would have been total after my, not entirely accurate comment, except I could hear the gears turning in his brain as he sought a reply.
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  50

  What would happen if the Watchtower decided no more meeting at Kingdom Halls, only Zoom?

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’m seeing my hard core believing relatives slowly losing faith that the watchtower is the organization that “god” is using to represent him on earth.. just about all the churches in their area have opened up.. but not the watchtower.. this is having an affect on the faith of even the old timers.

  now the only ones who are still holding the faith are the female jws and only those past 70 years of age.

  even my old male jw relative past 70 are starting to say that it can’t be jehovah’s organization because the other churches are all open and god supposed organization who is supposed to preach the warning message is still closed with no open in sight.

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  Phizzy

  The G.B are undecided which way to go with this maybe. I could be generous and say they are being very cautious and looking after the well-being of the Flock by not opening up K.H's at present.

  But they have always been reactive, and slow to catch on to what is needed, so they are merely dithering IMHO.

  I think if they decide to go fully on-line only they will lose their growth in the 3rd World, then the withering away of support will be so easily seen by even faithful die-hards. At present there is growth, but not anything significant in the bits of the World that are Internet connected.

  They will eventually go on-line only no doubt. But will achieve it slowly, and stealthily, and it will all be a " Blessing from Jehovah" !
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  25

  The right to not be exposed to ideas I don’t like or agree with?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ok, i would like to submit to the forum the following question: in abstract, do you think that there is a right to not being exposed to ideas that you don’t like or disagree with?

  please think it through and its implications on both ends of the spectrum.. it’s not the right to conscientious objection to do something you vehemently disagree with; it’s not about the liberty to chose which ideas you want to embrace or advocate.

  it’s something different.. given that, as exjws, we understand the importance of being exposed to different opinions in order to form our own opinion, should someone claim the right not to be exposed to opinions or ideas that they don’t like?

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  Phizzy

  Technically this guy has found his chosen solution to the problem :

  
  
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  47

  The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  despite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".

  below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).

  https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.

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  Phizzy

  Every Fossil find has backed up that Evolution for flora and fauna is a reality.

  Not one fossil find contradicts or disproves the Theory. We have not found " Rabbits in the pre-Cambrian era", which is what one Scientist said would cause an upset.

  And as Dawkins rightly said " The Fossil Record is a bonus, not vital to our knowledge" not verbatim, but Dawkins said something similar. We will find more, we are, on a regular basis. They simply expand our knowledge, give us a clearer picture of the course Evolution took.