mentally ill/delusional or con artist?

by enoughisenough in

maybe this has been discussed in the past and i wasn't here... what do you think?

are the gb members knowingly pulling a con, or do they have delusions of grandeur?

i will go out on a limb here to say that i think they are con artist.

Phizzy

I think they have been carefully selected over the years as fully indoctrinated believers. The difficulty is when they get to the top, they see how it all really works.

But, as full believers, they justify and rationalise this. I have seen this operate in people who have climbed the Political ladder, they may still be "believers" in the ideology they espouse, but realise it is pragmatic to lie to the "faithful" by not telling the whole truth, or downright telling porkies. But, the said politician STILL believes !

So, with the position, must come increased cognitive dissonance, but they have had a lifetime of dealing with that.

Deluded Charlatans are still Charlatans.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

Phizzy

"Scholar" said : " all of the population had left Judah leaving the Land desolate for a fixed period of 70 years until they returned home 70 years later"

Archaeology clearly shows the land of Judah was NOT left without population during this period. Occupation and farming continued.

But, this has taken the Thread away from the question in it's Title, I will be intrigued as to how they will get rid of the 1914 nonsense, if they ever do, if they get rid of 1914, then the 1919 "choosing" goes, so they are in a tight corner.

They tried the method of just mentioning 1914 as a "given" that did not work, so they painted themselves into that corner again by trying another specious explanation of 1914.

They are stuck with it, like a rotting, stinking, dead animal tied around their necks.

16

Are Both The JW And The Ex-JW Community a Cult?

by Vanderhoven7 in

charlie ryde writes:.

let us use the same bite model for determining if something is a cult to both being a jw and being ex-jw.

mind you this is a short summary.. b- behavioral control.

Phizzy

I agree almost 100% with Eden One's comment above, except remembering my own experience upon leaving, as a very naive person, having been born in, I really appreciated the guidance of Posters on here, and elsewhere on line, who helped me begin to learn how to think Critically, how to really examine my beliefs etc. and they gave me the impetus to educate myself.

So, though not campaigning to save people, but a kindly nudge to them may be helpful, but, as Eden says, if they are a pig (ignorant) you won't teach them to dance.

5

Nethinim...Con-men or Prostitutes....

by peacefulpete in

i thought a short commentary on the "nethinim" (nathinim, nethunim) would be fun.

the word (given (ones) is used in verbal form in reference to the levites until the post exilic stories whereupon it takes on a new usage as a name of a specific non-israelite people serving in the temple.

it is much complicated by the various descriptions from p,d,j but it is clear we have some conflict of opinions about the history and role of this group.. in josh 9 we have an apparent late attempt to identify nethinim with the gibeonites.

Phizzy

So, if the Nethinim are post-Exilic, and slaves given for service by rich worshippers, these would be people living in the land when the returnees got back from Babylon ? Rich worshippers and slaves in the land ? or did the two classes form over time as the 2nd temple was built ?

5

Nethinim...Con-men or Prostitutes....

by peacefulpete in

i thought a short commentary on the "nethinim" (nathinim, nethunim) would be fun.

the word (given (ones) is used in verbal form in reference to the levites until the post exilic stories whereupon it takes on a new usage as a name of a specific non-israelite people serving in the temple.

it is much complicated by the various descriptions from p,d,j but it is clear we have some conflict of opinions about the history and role of this group.. in josh 9 we have an apparent late attempt to identify nethinim with the gibeonites.

Phizzy

ḲEDESHAH (plural, Ḳedeshot):

By: Emil G. Hirsch, Joseph Jacobs

The ḳedeshot were sacred prostitutes attached to the Temple as priestesses of Ashtoreth or Astarte. The worship of Ashtoreth was introduced by Solomon (I Kings xi. 5); and it is possible that the obscene rites connected therewith were practised near the Temple, which was practically a chapel royal while the kingdom lasted. It is even stated that Tamar adopted the professional dress of a ḳedeshah to ensnare Judah (Gen. xxxviii. 21). The male counterparts of the ḳedeshot, the ḳedeshim, are mentioned in the reign of Rehoboam (I Kings xiv. 24); they were removedby Asa (ib. xv. 12) and by Jehoshaphat (ib. xxii. 47); and Josiah even found it necessary to break down their houses at the time of his reforms (II Kings xxiii. 7). Hosea (iv. 14) refers to ḳedeshot. The Deuteronomic legislation, which represents Josiah's reformation, declared against the practise of such rites. "There shall be no ḳedeshah of the daughters of Israel, nor a ḳadesh of the sons of Israel" (Deut. xxiii. 18, Hebr.). It is doubtful, however, whether the rites were altogether abolished; for Ezekiel gives a full account of them, obviously from scenes witnessed during his lifetime (Ezek. xxiii. 36-48). It is even probable that there was reversion to these rites by Jehoiakim (II Kings xxiii. 37), Jehoiachin (ib. xxiv. 9), and Zedekiah (ib. 19). It has been suggested by Jacobs that the Nethinim were the descendants of these ḳedeshot.

Bibliography:

Jacobs, Studies in Biblical Archœology, pp. 114-116, London, 1894.

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Phizzy

" It saddens me that most ex JWs seem to see all Christian denominations through the prism of the Watchtower. My experience in Christendom, probably like yours and Mrs Ozzie , bears no relation to the experience of JWs ."

As soon as we left, my wife and I attended a number of different churches, different denominations, and one wonderful "independent" church that was self financing, lead by a very loving but vibrant preacher,with lots of families, a wonderful christian Rock band, etc etc.

No organised worship is for us now, but if we wanted it, we would go there ! You could feel the love and concern that was there within the congregation, but was immediately extended to us. These people were real followers of Christ.

33

Everyone else burns new UK sitcom

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

i'm looking forward to this, having watched a trailer i think ex-jws will enjoy it https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/comedy/everyone-else-burns-simon-bird-first-look-exclusive-newsupdate/.

Phizzy

" I hope we can find a way to watch it here in the USA."

Channel 4 have an on-line catch-up service, maybe you could access that ?

10

OPINIONS PLEASE: I propose a new strategy against the Watchtower policy of DISFELLOWSHIP

by Terry in

i need your opinion and a discussion...tell me what you think, both pros and cons...the governments of norway and russia have both targeted watchtower's severely inhumane policy of disfellowship separating and isolating members by ostracizing them and labeling them as 'mentally diseased", etc.

dis fellowship.is a mushy concept unfamiliar to non-jw's.that word doesn't convey brutal, cold, and uncaring shunning and the impact on vulnerable persons cut off from family and friends.i propose swapping the phrase "religious apartheid" for the term "disfellowship" because it is significantly more impactful, familiar, and gut-wrenching.jw's teach practice and promote discrimination, opprobrium, and animus in punishing by isolation those who disagree with their doctrines.

moreover - it is a de facto death sentence both spiritually and (according to the expectation of armageddon) literally as well.

Phizzy

"Religious Apartheid" is a good expression IMHO.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

Phizzy

"the convoluted selection of ‘2520 years’ doesn’t even have any direct biblical basis." I would suggest it doesn't have any indirect basis either.

The Book of Daniel is agreed by a consensus of Scholars to be a thinly veiled political/religious tract against Antiochus Epiphanes 1V, no way was the seven times/years envisaged by the writer to be any longer than what the Chapter says, seven years of madness for the King. "Daniels" prophecies were supposed to happen very soon, apart from the vague apocalyptic stuff.

To extrapolate 2520 years from "Daniel" is a twisting and misuse of Scripture, and you have to be deranged to accept it.

4

feeling nothing in common

by enoughisenough in

i feel like there may be some old jw friends that i could call- they may not know i left jw- but somehow i am not inclined to.

i would have to play a game with them...i feel like i have nothing in common with them anymore.

i feel like if i did talk to them, i would want to tell them they have been duped and that will go over like a wet balloon.

Phizzy

I feel affection for the many friends we left behind in the mental prison that is J.W org. But, BIG BUT, I know I have nothing in common at all with them now, and when I speak with J.W family members I am still conscious of the need to "tread on eggshells", so conversation is stilted.

Having been out for so long, I am not the person I was when I was in, I feel that I never was a J.W, I know I have the memory of the experience, but nothing of what the JW org put in me is there any longer. I have no desire to speak to religious weirdos of any stripe.

I love the company of my real friends, who have never been J.W's, I relax and am the real me with them, a pain in the arse I expect, but they don't care. My friends, and non-JW family that I have bonded with in recent years, are the most lovely, truly great people, J.W.s with their conditional "love" and "friendship" are not.

Phizzy

Posts by Phizzy

ḲEDESHAH (plural, Ḳedeshot):

By: Emil G. Hirsch, Joseph Jacobs