Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  24

  Watchtower Theology is based on inauthentic foundation: proof texts

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower theology is propped up by proof texts.. if the texts are inspired, the watchtower claims it is empowered to reveal the meaning.. but--consider how flimsy, inauthentic and unprovable the foundation of this teaching really is.. .

  consider the difference (if any) in meaning between these two renderings.. .

  1.all scripture is inspired by god and useful for teaching, reproving and setting things straight.. .

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  Phizzy

  Are you claiming Michelle, that because there are believing christians today that proves something ?

  "just because an idea is held to persistently for centuries, that does not make it true" Tim Minchen.
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  80

  Is there one Bible Prophecy.....

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the form of a prediction, that can be proven to truly be a prediction,i.e written before the event, and it came true ?.

  it would be good not to have time wasters on this thread in the form of the common ones that are brought up to demonstrate the bible's prophetic prowess, like cyrus being named , these have been debunked already.. but does there seem to be a genuine prophecy in there somewhere ?.

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  Phizzy

  When was "not a stone shall be left upon a stone" written ? It is in Mark 13 , but this apocalyptic has been much studied by scholars, and that bit particularly is thought to be written after 70C.E

  What are you thinking of simon17 ? that "wolves in sheeps clothing" will appear ? that was written way after various schisms and an incipient Gnosticism had already appeared, hardly a prophecy.

  What we cannot do here, is take words that are put into the mouth of Jesus decades after his death, and the events covered by the words, and call them prophecies, they are not.
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  80

  Is there one Bible Prophecy.....

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the form of a prediction, that can be proven to truly be a prediction,i.e written before the event, and it came true ?.

  it would be good not to have time wasters on this thread in the form of the common ones that are brought up to demonstrate the bible's prophetic prowess, like cyrus being named , these have been debunked already.. but does there seem to be a genuine prophecy in there somewhere ?.

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  Phizzy

  Vidqun mentioned the seeming prophecy about the Temple , Luke and Matthew were written long after its destruction, (long being on the basis of "a week is a long time in politics").

  Mark may just be a contender, but as the earliest date credible scholars give is after the 66CE show of force, this is not exactly great foresight, though if it could be proved to be such it would look a little impressive, the problem is that the evidence for a post 70CE date for the gospel of Mark is not without merit.

  Belief in the Bible as god's word on such tenuous evidence is not very good for basing your life on is it ?

  Ref Gen 3v15, of course this relies on making Jesus the fulfiller of this prophecy, which is almost in circular argument territory. Look at earlier threads by the great Leolaia and see how Matthew in his Gospel forced the Hebrew scriptures to seem as though Jesus fulfilled them.

  We do not yet seem to have asatisfactory example, as Cofty says , there should be many stunningly good examples.
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  80

  Is there one Bible Prophecy.....

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the form of a prediction, that can be proven to truly be a prediction,i.e written before the event, and it came true ?.

  it would be good not to have time wasters on this thread in the form of the common ones that are brought up to demonstrate the bible's prophetic prowess, like cyrus being named , these have been debunked already.. but does there seem to be a genuine prophecy in there somewhere ?.

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  Phizzy

  So do I Cofty, but as I don't believe there is even one that stands scrutiny this may turn out to be a Tumbleweed thread.

  If so, all the "Bible is the word of God " brigade can just shut the ***k up and stop saying it is.
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  80

  Is there one Bible Prophecy.....

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the form of a prediction, that can be proven to truly be a prediction,i.e written before the event, and it came true ?.

  it would be good not to have time wasters on this thread in the form of the common ones that are brought up to demonstrate the bible's prophetic prowess, like cyrus being named , these have been debunked already.. but does there seem to be a genuine prophecy in there somewhere ?.

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  Phizzy

  in the form of a prediction, that can be proven to truly be a prediction,i.e written before the event, and it came true ?

  It would be good not to have time wasters on this thread in the form of the common ones that are brought up to demonstrate the Bible's prophetic prowess, like Cyrus being named , these have been debunked already.

  But does there seem to be a genuine prophecy in there somewhere ?
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  7

  We're All Powerful - a rap by sd-7

  by sd-7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when we're all powerful.

  we're in the business.

  a mountain of resistance.

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  Phizzy

  "When they called it Rap they left the "C" off the front" George Harrison, may he R.IP

  Not that I am demeaning your fine effort SD, just that I am with George on this one, I don't like the genre, many do, and they are welcome to listen to it.

  All your writing shows considerable talent SD7, and especially when you do your satirical WT articles etc, you are powerful.

  Humour is a powerful tool, to make fun of the WT is far more subversive than any demolition of their false doctrine and theology.

  The problem I can see for you in this is that they are getting so very very silly, they may before long be beyond satire, just to pick up a WT or AWK will be the same as reading your excellent spoofs, they are almost there !
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  24

  Watchtower Theology is based on inauthentic foundation: proof texts

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower theology is propped up by proof texts.. if the texts are inspired, the watchtower claims it is empowered to reveal the meaning.. but--consider how flimsy, inauthentic and unprovable the foundation of this teaching really is.. .

  consider the difference (if any) in meaning between these two renderings.. .

  1.all scripture is inspired by god and useful for teaching, reproving and setting things straight.. .

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  Phizzy

  Lars, in view of the above points made so excellently by the old geezer, whoops, I mean Terry (65), why should we "accept" the N.T ?

  Yours is circular reasoning at its best.
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  34

  Just tired of the label "Apostate".

  by rjl15225 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  bare with me on this post.

  i just need to get it off my chest!.

  i find it interesting that in so many threads here in this forum and in others, to find the reference to apostates.

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  Phizzy

  Religious groups that are as fundamentalist as the WT have a habit of demonising their enemies so that they do not have to address the arguments against them.

  They have a habit too of changing the meaning of words "Atheist" for instance was used in the past as a derogatory word, it did not mean that the person had no belief in God, just that he had left the religion calling him that.

  The problem is that the poor mind controlled JW will listen or read no further once something has been labelled "Apostate". I tried to get a guy I know to take a look at JWFacts.com and this site, he has been inactive and non-attending for well over a decade, but he said he will not look at Apostate sites.

  I reasoned with him that even if someone like Adolph Hitler or Saddam Husein were to say something that were true, it would still be true, the source, whatever you label it , does not matter, but I don't think I got through.

  That is what really annoys me about the WT's usage, it is simply used as a fear inducing tactic to stop JW's finding out the truth about the organisation they support.
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  202

  I don't believe the Bible is Inspired of god - Why do you / don't you?

  by cantleave in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many of you may know that i was brought up a witness and stayed in until the age of 42, even reaching the dizzy heights of being a congregation elder.

  i was unusual in that, even as a witness i studied to degree level, on a part time basis, sponsored by my employer.

  my first was in chemistry and my masters is in business administration.

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  Phizzy

  I do not believe the Bible is inspired of God, if it was He would have made it, as Cantleave says, self-authenticating in some way, a fact or two that the writers could not have known at the time they wrote, and,almost the same thing, a prediction that came 100% true.

  I am familiar with all the pro-inspiration for the Bible arguments, they do not stand scrutiny.

  I do not wish to throw out the baby with the bathwater as the old saying goes, so I recognise there may be instuction, comfort, and even wisdom to be found in the Bible, but it is still the work of men, men of limited knowledge because of their time and their circumstances.

  To claim anything more than that for it is to ignore all the evidence, if your faith demands that you ignore all the evidence, is it a faith worth having ?

  SHERLOCK REALLY IS ON NOW, must go !
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  5

  Religion is a racket and a snare! ....uuuuhmmmmm

  by justmom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  remember when the wtbs shouted those words?

  ooh and "millions now living will never die?"...

  using sandwich signs, loud speakers on top of autos and yes they even picketed this.

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  Phizzy

  Rutherford spoke with authority when he said "Religion is a snare and a racket", he knew full well that was true, because he had just started the snare and racket that was, and still is, the WT.