Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  Phizzy

  An interesting point you raise joyey jojo, the use of the word "katholikos" as being very early. It shows that there was as early as that a group of Churches who considered themselves to be "the whole Church" and thus were dismissive of Christian groups outside of theirs as not Orthodox.

  This thinking must have arisen because of the size of their group, compared to the others, who were probably dwindling in number by then, so they claimed the evident blessing of God upon their Pauline Christianity. At that time of course there was for sure no fixed "Canon" so they must have judged the other groups on difference of Doctrine and interpretation.

  The same thinking pervaded the JW's in my youth : " Look how fast we are growing ! We must have Jehovah's blessing !", that thinking is still there to a degree, of course it is not only a fallacy to think that way, but the figures rather go against it too, much larger Christian Groups are also growing faster. Thanks for your thought on this.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  Phizzy

  "by the usage of Christian congregations throughout the ancient world.'

  I commented earlier on this phrase from the WT Article, but they are not consistent on this, apart from the books/Writings they reject totally, which were used by many in the early Churches, they reject the passage about the Woman caught in Adultery, they claim because it "is not in the earliest manuscripts", but there is evidence this passage was long used in the early Church.

  Later bishops did not like it because it took away their Control, how very like JW's own G.B ! and because it was too lenient on the woman, had it been a man in the story it would have been different no doubt.
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  67

  5 kingdom halls in New Addington for sale

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had it confirmed today that 5 kingdom halls on one site in new addington are for sale.

  price being asked £3.5 million.. every witness in london worked on that site.

  am in shock.

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  Phizzy

  The longer it sits idle, the displaced and inconvenienced JW's will feel very disgruntled, and may even begin to question if it was "Jehovah's Direction" that prompted this upheaval, or merely Corporate Greed, who knows ?

  The guy who forced them to remove the two attached Cottages from the Sale did not help the Agents in their quest to find a buyer. it is not quite the prospect it was, without those.
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  13

  CO zoom visit this week part deux

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so within a week he changed the end time chain of events.

  this time he said false religion will be along side with the govt.

  powers when they declare peace and security!

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  Phizzy

  We are getting so far away from 1914 that I can see an " Overlapping Last Days" idea coming soon LOL ! Or maybe another Date is chosen as significant to "look forward" to ?

  This constantly shouting " Wolf ! Wolf! " like the Peter, of the Fable, is wearing very thin surely ? Or at least it will, when things calm down again over the next year or two.
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  17

  Jehovah’s Witnesses President Robert Ciranko dies of coronavirus

  by Balaamsass2 in

  1. social
  2. current

  fyi.

  this showed up on my google feed.

  i couldn't find an earlier story in the search box.

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  Phizzy

  I think we need to be very careful with Posting such news, I know it is easy to be drawn in, and I don't blame anyone for falling for this sort of thing, it is cleverly done. Even Old Phizzy has been fooled a few times by similar things LOL.

  The problem is that such things can give ammunition to the Orgs constant refrain about " Apostate Lies", and if we do not take care, they are partially right.

  There may at some time in the future be a slew of this sort of thing, Posted by devout JW's, to fool us, and to give credence to the argument that we constantly lie. The thing is, the JW mindset is find one inaccuracy, and everything can be rejected, of course, in their Arch Hypocrisy they do not apply this to their own beloved Org !

  We must all be very cautious with what we Post. We want to encourage JW's who come here for the first time to be able to feel they can trust this estimable Site.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  Phizzy

  They rather shot themselves in the foot with the statement that "the canon was already settled by then, not by the decree of any council, but by the usage of Christian congregations throughout the ancient world.'

  There is plenty of proof that many of the Churches/Congregations in the 1st Century used Books, and sections of Writings that are rejected by the Org for various reasons, none of them very Scholarly reasons. Revelation upon which they rely for their Armageddon nonsense was in dispute, and little used it seems in the early Christian Churches, and of course the dispute about the legitimacy of Revelation carried on at least until the time of Martin Luther.

  The truth is the Org accepts the Protestant Canon, which was fixed when ?..... Exactly.

  The big question is why do they accept these writings alone ? They have no genuine reason to do so, their arguments in support are as usual, fallacious.
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  10

  UK Civil Service Damns UK Government

  by cofty in

  1. social
  2. current

  following the daily covid19 briefing, in which boris johnson defended his advisor dominic cummings for travelling to his family estate after showing symptoms of the virus, the civil service official twitter feed posted the following.. .

  the tweet was quickly deleted.

  i can't overstate how unthinkable it is that the service should publicly criticise the government of the day.. boris' defense of cummings is a huge error in judgement and will destroy its credibility.

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  Phizzy

  I rather admire the Journalist who sat on the half of the story, that Cummings had done this TWICE, until a number of Tory M.P's had come out and "defended" him.

  If he is allowed to flout Lock Down Rules, and get away with it, it makes a mockery of those Rules.

  Many people who obeyed the Rules, could not be with dying loved ones, could not attend their funeral, and some in parallel situations to Cummings, obeyed, and managed alone.
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  67

  5 kingdom halls in New Addington for sale

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had it confirmed today that 5 kingdom halls on one site in new addington are for sale.

  price being asked £3.5 million.. every witness in london worked on that site.

  am in shock.

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  Phizzy

  Is this still for Sale does anyone know please ? I see that they have had to take the two attached Cottages out of the Sale, and I saw that the local Residents Association was getting up a Petition to save the field that is behind the Halls.

  If it is still for Sale, if it is, I doubt they will now get an offer in excess of £3.5 Million as they were asking.

  Anyone know ?
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  43

  Craziest thing you ever saw in a KH?

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i did this in my facebook group for my podcast and it was fun.. so what's the craziest thing you ever saw?.

  for me it was watching a brother have a heart attack during the meeting in the auditorium.

  i was a kid and noticed him shaking and acting strange.

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  Phizzy

  I no doubt have a number of things in the old memory banks, but one I remember was a young girl always wanted to go to the "bathroom" as many Americans call it, we call it the "Euphemism" here in the U.K. LOL. her father tried to leave it until at least a Song was on the go or something, one day the little kid had had enough of this, so she told him she wanted to go, he said wait, so she just stood up and pissed on the carpet !

  He always rushed her straight out as soon as she asked after that !
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  30

  F. W. Franz epic talk May 11, 1975 (clip)

  by lastmanstanding in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vwxeenkkoary-efyhnt75iqmagx0yywf.

  f. w. franz "times in which we are particularly interested" may 11, 1975. ;introduced by kenneth a. little, a much younger man than now for sure.. the clip is 8 minutes.. unfortunately, some idiot recorded over part of this day many years ago.

  i am hoping to find another copy in the box..

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  Phizzy

  " Maybe other people are more open minded to the idea the JW religion can reform or have a revival..but I’m done with it." LHgirl.

  I'm long done with it too ! I don't think that any creating of Doctrine along mad Freddy lines, re-interpreting old meanings of "Bible Prophecies" would have any effect on recruitment, or retention. I do think the Org will have to move with the times or wither away over the next few years. The Internet will finish them wherever it is available, unless they get a grip.

  To keep trying to maintain Control by denying Education to JW's will not wash when it will be plain that just to live a reasonable life, everyone needs some marketable skills to get a reasonably paying job. Minimum wage JW's will be rare, and of course, foolish.