Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  20

  Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

  this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

  (1 cor.

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  Phizzy

  The problem for serious Christians comes with deciding how much of the Bible is literal, and how much metaphor and Parable etc.

  Most sensible Christians agree that the Adam and Eve story is metaphorical, or a parable, but if so whence cometh Sin ? Perhaps Jan or someone could explain ? Certainly the concept of Sin as expounded by Paul and later N.T writers was not in early Judaism in that sort of form, so the whole concept is somewhat mired in doubt. And for a lot of the development of the Doctrine of Sin we have to wait until St Augustine of Hippo, and read what that old windbag has to say.

  But Paul's saying Jesus was the Firstborn from the dead I do not see as a problem, or strange, within Paul's Christology.
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  66

  Watchtower fined in Belgium

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

  news.

  you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

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  Phizzy

  The Org will find ways around this if an Appeal fails, but their guns will have been severely spiked, they certainly will not be able to take much overt action against those JW's who choose to have a normal relationship with family members who have left for whatever reason.

  But the Org RELIES upon the awful Shunning technique to keep members in, so they will circumvent this in any way they can.

  The heartening thing is that this Case has taken place in an E.U Country, all E.U Countries will take note of the eventual outcome, and even non-E.U Countries often follow closely, and emulate, decisions made by E.U Courts.
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  29

  Newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls with the tetragrammaton within the Greek text

  by dropoffyourkeylee in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  big news from israel, some previously undiscovered dead sea scrolls have been found with portions of the ot in greek.

  it says the name of god is included in hebrew letters within the greek text.. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/world/middleeast/dead-sea-scrolls.html.

  "the new fragments contain verses from zechariah 8:16-17, including part of the name of god written in ancient hebrew, and verses from nahum 1:5-6, both from the biblical book of the twelve minor prophets.".

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  Phizzy

  This find adds nothing new to the Divine name argument, the reason the Name was written in Hebrew letters is believed, with good reason, to be a warning to the reader to substitute "Lord", otherwise why not translate it in to Greek ?

  As one of the academics quoted above observes, the Text was not static, so it could well be that by the 1st Century copies of the Septuagint which the N.T writers used did not contain the Name in Hebrew, simply one of the Greek words for Lord.

  We will never know of course whether the divine name was written by N.T writers as autograph copies of N.T writings will not be found, in all probability. Of course, if a Copy were found containing it, we could not know for sure they uttered it aloud, certainly Jews did not by that time, and many early Christians were orthodox Jews , surely there would have been a furore about uttering the Name if that had suddenly become the practice among Christians ?

  The debate will no doubt continue, but my default position is that JW's are wrong on everything.
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  20

  Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.

  this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.

  (1 cor.

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• 

  Phizzy

  I think we have to ask what Paul's idea of Resurrection would have been. He was a Pharisee, so believed there would be a Resurrection, but he probably believed as most did at his time this was to occur for most at " The End of Days" .

  Generally Rabbis of his day envisaged a resurrection back to life on Earth if I remember correctly, they quoted the examples from Scripture where ones were formerly brought back to life, but bearing that in mind , how could Christ be the Firstborn from the dead ? I guess the conclusion above is right, he was the first to gain immortality, those previous guys all died in the end.

  Paul has to develop these ideas, somewhat hurriedly, and way different to what orthodox Jews believed then, because he is convinced that Jesus , after his death, spoke to Paul from Heaven. And Mortals don't get in to Heaven, presumably.
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  28

  Why do some people who were trapped in the WT and wake up, still believe in the Bible God who allowed them to be deceived for years.

  by pistolpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  why do some people who were trapped in the wt and wake up after much frustration and anger that they were lied to, still believe in the bible god who allowed them and their families to be deceived and trapped for years.

  i have an acquaintance who is a lot older than me and for the past 30 years he has been out of the watchtower religion and is sola scriptura.

  sola scriptura is a theological doctrine that posits the christian scriptures as the sole infallible source of authority for christian faith and practice.

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  Phizzy

  When I first left I believed in the god of the Bible, and believed it was his Word.

  I was painfully aware that the J.W Org had lied to me since my birth, so determined to Fact Check and Question EVERYTHING in future, I didn't want to be fooled again.

  So, I put the effort in, did lots of proper Research and ended up where I am today, a Happy, Informed, Humanist Atheist.

  If I had not expended the effort, I too might still be trusting as true things that have no Foundation whatsoever.
• 
  140

  Why So Many Young People Are Leaving The Watchtower

  by Jeremy C in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been giving a lot of thought to the young people who are leaving the watchtower organization in recent years.

  last night, i was reading the thread posted by jwfacts a while back in which he provided some statistics and graphs showing the rapidly declining growth in the watchtower.

  one factor that was discussed at length was the high number of young people who do not stay in the organization.

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  Phizzy

  I am surprised how many young ones do stay, but having said that, all the ones I have met recently, or heard of, who are either out or working towards it are pretty young, the oldest was 42, and he told me the names of lots of his younger mates who were Awake at least.

  Sadly the older ones are now stuck in until they die I guess. As an Elder said to me just after I left " All the intelligent ones have left" ( I hope he included me in that group !".)

  I miss Jeremy C and Posters of his Stature too.
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  24

  Can a person resign from being one of Jehovah's Witness?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can a person resign from being one of jehovah’s witnesses?.

  frequently asked questions.

  a person can resign from our organization in two ways:.

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  Phizzy

  Well done Sail Away, I have heard of others doing this, successfully.

  The legal threat puts them on guard, it doesn't stop the rumour mill, and then some will shun you to some degree no doubt, but who cares ? you have spiked their guns as much as is possible.
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  56

  Do You Get Easily Offended By What People Do or Don’t Do?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does using uncle ben’s food products offend you?.

  are you offended if you see a flag?

  what about a confederate flag?.

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  Phizzy

  You're "Offended" ? Nobody dies themselves from being offended. Go, home, grow up, and get over it.

  I find some views offensive in the sense that they should never be expressed, like Racist or Misogynistic and Homophobic views, but I don't have a hissy fit and get my underpants in a bunch about it.

  I just loudly expose where such views are wrong. If it is practical and sensible to do so, some people you cannot have a discussion with, so sod them, they can go stew in their Hate.
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  7

  RIP Murray Walker. The world is a sadder quieter place now,

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any f1 fan of a certain vintage will shed a tear for murray.

  the embodiment of enthusiasm..

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  Phizzy

  When you compare Murray with the JW "Speakers" you realise how lacking in animation and enthusiasm they are for their subject, and their religion.

  Murray LOVED F1 and it showed, in spades. Aren't JW's supposed to love their " truth" ? well, why don't they sound at least a bit animated and involved ?
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  7

  RIP Murray Walker. The world is a sadder quieter place now,

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any f1 fan of a certain vintage will shed a tear for murray.

  the embodiment of enthusiasm..

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  Phizzy

  I loved the quote that " Even in his quieter moments, he sounded as though his trousers were alight" !

  I think that was originally in the Guardian.