So, if the Nethinim are post-Exilic, and slaves given for service by rich worshippers, these would be people living in the land when the returnees got back from Babylon ? Rich worshippers and slaves in the land ? or did the two classes form over time as the 2nd temple was built ?
Posts by Phizzy
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5Nethinim...Con-men or Prostitutes....
by peacefulpete ini thought a short commentary on the "nethinim" (nathinim, nethunim) would be fun.
the word (given (ones) is used in verbal form in reference to the levites until the post exilic stories whereupon it takes on a new usage as a name of a specific non-israelite people serving in the temple.
it is much complicated by the various descriptions from p,d,j but it is clear we have some conflict of opinions about the history and role of this group.. in josh 9 we have an apparent late attempt to identify nethinim with the gibeonites.
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Nethinim...Con-men or Prostitutes....
by peacefulpete ini thought a short commentary on the "nethinim" (nathinim, nethunim) would be fun.
the word (given (ones) is used in verbal form in reference to the levites until the post exilic stories whereupon it takes on a new usage as a name of a specific non-israelite people serving in the temple.
it is much complicated by the various descriptions from p,d,j but it is clear we have some conflict of opinions about the history and role of this group.. in josh 9 we have an apparent late attempt to identify nethinim with the gibeonites.
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Phizzy
ḲEDESHAH (plural, Ḳedeshot):
The ḳedeshot were sacred prostitutes attached to the Temple as priestesses of Ashtoreth or Astarte. The worship of Ashtoreth was introduced by Solomon (I Kings xi. 5); and it is possible that the obscene rites connected therewith were practised near the Temple, which was practically a chapel royal while the kingdom lasted. It is even stated that Tamar adopted the professional dress of a ḳedeshah to ensnare Judah (Gen. xxxviii. 21). The male counterparts of the ḳedeshot, the ḳedeshim, are mentioned in the reign of Rehoboam (I Kings xiv. 24); they were removedby Asa (ib. xv. 12) and by Jehoshaphat (ib. xxii. 47); and Josiah even found it necessary to break down their houses at the time of his reforms (II Kings xxiii. 7). Hosea (iv. 14) refers to ḳedeshot. The Deuteronomic legislation, which represents Josiah's reformation, declared against the practise of such rites. "There shall be no ḳedeshah of the daughters of Israel, nor a ḳadesh of the sons of Israel" (Deut. xxiii. 18, Hebr.). It is doubtful, however, whether the rites were altogether abolished; for Ezekiel gives a full account of them, obviously from scenes witnessed during his lifetime (Ezek. xxiii. 36-48). It is even probable that there was reversion to these rites by Jehoiakim (II Kings xxiii. 37), Jehoiachin (ib. xxiv. 9), and Zedekiah (ib. 19). It has been suggested by Jacobs that the Nethinim were the descendants of these ḳedeshot.
Bibliography:- Jacobs, Studies in Biblical Archœology, pp. 114-116, London, 1894.
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Research paper on Effects of Shunning
by peacefulpete inafter being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.
many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.
i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.
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Phizzy
" It saddens me that most ex JWs seem to see all Christian denominations through the prism of the Watchtower. My experience in Christendom, probably like yours and Mrs Ozzie , bears no relation to the experience of JWs ."
As soon as we left, my wife and I attended a number of different churches, different denominations, and one wonderful "independent" church that was self financing, lead by a very loving but vibrant preacher,with lots of families, a wonderful christian Rock band, etc etc.
No organised worship is for us now, but if we wanted it, we would go there ! You could feel the love and concern that was there within the congregation, but was immediately extended to us. These people were real followers of Christ.
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Everyone else burns new UK sitcom
by Mickey mouse ini'm looking forward to this, having watched a trailer i think ex-jws will enjoy it https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/comedy/everyone-else-burns-simon-bird-first-look-exclusive-newsupdate/.
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Phizzy
" I hope we can find a way to watch it here in the USA."
Channel 4 have an on-line catch-up service, maybe you could access that ?
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OPINIONS PLEASE: I propose a new strategy against the Watchtower policy of DISFELLOWSHIP
by Terry ini need your opinion and a discussion...tell me what you think, both pros and cons...the governments of norway and russia have both targeted watchtower's severely inhumane policy of disfellowship separating and isolating members by ostracizing them and labeling them as 'mentally diseased", etc.
dis fellowship.is a mushy concept unfamiliar to non-jw's.that word doesn't convey brutal, cold, and uncaring shunning and the impact on vulnerable persons cut off from family and friends.i propose swapping the phrase "religious apartheid" for the term "disfellowship" because it is significantly more impactful, familiar, and gut-wrenching.jw's teach practice and promote discrimination, opprobrium, and animus in punishing by isolation those who disagree with their doctrines.
moreover - it is a de facto death sentence both spiritually and (according to the expectation of armageddon) literally as well.
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Phizzy
"Religious Apartheid" is a good expression IMHO.
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How Will They End 1914 Teaching?
by EmptyInside ini'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.
instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .
they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .
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Phizzy
"the convoluted selection of ‘2520 years’ doesn’t even have any direct biblical basis." I would suggest it doesn't have any indirect basis either.
The Book of Daniel is agreed by a consensus of Scholars to be a thinly veiled political/religious tract against Antiochus Epiphanes 1V, no way was the seven times/years envisaged by the writer to be any longer than what the Chapter says, seven years of madness for the King. "Daniels" prophecies were supposed to happen very soon, apart from the vague apocalyptic stuff.
To extrapolate 2520 years from "Daniel" is a twisting and misuse of Scripture, and you have to be deranged to accept it.
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feeling nothing in common
by enoughisenough ini feel like there may be some old jw friends that i could call- they may not know i left jw- but somehow i am not inclined to.
i would have to play a game with them...i feel like i have nothing in common with them anymore.
i feel like if i did talk to them, i would want to tell them they have been duped and that will go over like a wet balloon.
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Phizzy
I feel affection for the many friends we left behind in the mental prison that is J.W org. But, BIG BUT, I know I have nothing in common at all with them now, and when I speak with J.W family members I am still conscious of the need to "tread on eggshells", so conversation is stilted.
Having been out for so long, I am not the person I was when I was in, I feel that I never was a J.W, I know I have the memory of the experience, but nothing of what the JW org put in me is there any longer. I have no desire to speak to religious weirdos of any stripe.
I love the company of my real friends, who have never been J.W's, I relax and am the real me with them, a pain in the arse I expect, but they don't care. My friends, and non-JW family that I have bonded with in recent years, are the most lovely, truly great people, J.W.s with their conditional "love" and "friendship" are not.
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The Hubris of the Governing Body
by cofty init's difficult to comprehend how arrogant the members of the governing body must be to sanction much of the content that appears in their literature.
they identify themselves as the 'faithful and discreet slave' - that alone requires an astonishing degree of pride.
but what is even more amazing - arguably to the level of insanity - is the way they then use that phrase to elevate themselves above the rest of the organisation.
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Phizzy
Another thing this Thread has reminded me of, was when as a fairly young man I met a member of the Writing Committee, not quite a G.B member, but he was an arrogant, proud Twat, and enjoyed getting special respect from the R&F, respect that even to me then, as an active J.W, seemed unmerited.
I had to sit through a Public talk this guy gave, with the air that he was imparting wonderful words of secret wisdom, it was boring and had zero what I called at the time "spiritual" content. A family member of this guy had visited him at the K.H he and a number of other G.B attended in N.Y, and said that Meeting was most "unspiritual" and boring too !
Their Arrogance extends to not bothering to put any effort in to anything much.
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UK kingdom halls closing
by Farmer Jim1 incan anyone out there that is pimo give an update on the rate of kingdom halls closing in the uk?.
i was expecting a fire sale a few years back but i haven't heard much.
some congregations that were struggling back in my day still seem to be holding on to their halls..
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Phizzy
I too would be interested to know up to date info. on Congregation mergers and K.H sales.
I just wonder if the Org. has called a halt on the old Scam of K.H turnover for a while in the U.K, as Property prices and sales have stagnated, they may have an eye to the future, for when the Market recovers. More £££ to be made then.
There may be some "hidden" decrease as well, where say three Congregations were sharing a Hall, and those three are now two ?
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Internal server error
by peacefulpete ini've had this happen a number of times.
i know an archived thread regarding luke 22:exists as i was recently reading it, but now is no longer available.
it does not come up when using any combination of words that i know to be in the thread.
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Phizzy
Thanks for raising this Pete, and thanks to Simon for the remedy ! I just thought it was me not putting in the correct words needed in "Search", but it is not always so.
Mind you, I have therefore wandered into some interesting Threads, not what I was looking for perhaps , but fascinating and informative, some really old ones, by or including you PP !