Posts by Phizzy

40

The Reasoning Book

by Magnum in

the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

Phizzy

I am that old, born just after the Second Boer War, ( I jest, just after the Second World War actually), that I remember the precursor to those two Books, called "Equipped for Every Good Work", which was a heavier work than the later two, which were successively dumbed down.

I remember being on a "Bible Study" with a young feller, when I was about 12, taken by a very young Pioneer girl 16/17, the young feller's mum had asked the local Vicar to sit in on the "Study", afterwards he attacked what the young Pio. had been "teaching" and I looked up the pertinent pages in the "Make Sure" Book for her to use, and passed it to her, she didn't have the nous to use what I gave her, and to the young feller's mum, it seemed as though we as J.W's were beaten by the Vicar. The "Study" was stopped. Looking back, that young Pio. girl, by being ill-equipped did him a favour !

Years later, a Bro. and I were doing "Street Witnessing" in a local market, we started doing that long before the Org. advocated it, and I had a run-in with a Catholic Priest, I showed him in the "Reasoning" Book the bit about Apostolic Succession, he glanced at it, and said "I can show you quotes from many Scholars that disagree with what those Scholars say quoted in there", I was stunned, I thought what I had shown him was a clincher ! and that should have been the start of "waking me up", sadly, it was not, but it did put doubts in my mind about quotes used by the org. !

Those Books were only of use with uneducated members of the Public.

101

The Next Big Thing In WT World

by NotFormer in

things got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.

there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.

now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.

Phizzy

" Talk about pent-up demand." As soon as J.W's are granted a bit of freedom by their Lords and Masters, they grab at it, even if it is, as usual, way behind the curve, Beards are less fashionable now than a decade or more ago.

Expect the same with the "sisters" when allowed to wear trousers etc.

The only problem with this is, I used to able to spot J.W's on F.S no problem, guys in suits and ties,unfashionable, girls in long, unfashionable skirts,well, unfashionable and downright strange ! now I can only look out for the "Pioneer Shuffle", two J.dubs wasting time between doors, walking almost at Zero MPH !

I wonder if the "sisters" will be allowed to wear fashionably short skirts ?

21

Christians Encouraged to Read 'Pagan' Works

by peacefulpete in

clement of alexandria.

the stromata, or miscellanies.

book vi.

Phizzy

Just a comment on the Thread title, I notice that Christians were not encouraged to read the works of various Romans and others, who ridiculed and belittled the Christian Religion, and pointed out the flaws in it.

A bit like another certain Cult that we know too well, who forbid there members to research where they may, (will), come across similar lampooning , and more, those dreaded "Apostate Sites".

8

For the Disillusioned

by no-zombie in

a problem for all who come to realize that our faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed.

where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the bible, to the point of questioning god's actual existence.however while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which i doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), i don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person.

while others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.but what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of jesus'?interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question.

Phizzy

There are so many things in your O.P that are either plain wrong, or not explained with sufficient nuance.

Of course, every sane and realistic person should question what they believe, or you continue on through life believing lies and nonsense. If what you believe is Truth, it will withstand ANY scrutiny ! Truth is only established upon irrefutable facts and Evidence.

Once a person becomes a non-believer, in religious nonsense, including gods, it is not a problem, as you describe, " living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand ", except at first, very soon the relief of Freedom of Mind, being a Realist, and expunging baseless fears, is so immensely wonderful, that first feeling soon fades !

I was a full on Bible believing J.W for 58 years, from birth,only when I reached the stage outlined above, after a year or two from when I initially "woke up", did I experience True Happiness, for the first time in my life !

101

The Next Big Thing In WT World

by NotFormer in

things got a bit lively after the agm leaks in october.

there was a lot of discussion going on on this board for a few months.

now that all the leaks have been more or less confirmed as policy, and we've had lively discussions at length concerning the changes, things seem to have slowed down here.. a few suggestions have been raised as to what might be the next changes, such as women being allowed to wear slacks (in the usa, anyway), decoupling from 1914 as an anchoring date and others.. so, what changes do you think will be announced this year?.

Phizzy

Thank you SO MUCH TXnvSue2023 !

That Link to the List by year was EXACTLY what I was looking for,earlier today, to challenge a JW on Quora who said they hadn't made any fundamental changes, I gave him a list off the top of my head, but THAT will floor him if he comes back to me, which I doubt now.

Back on Topic, the 1914 thing is something they have to modify even more than they have, they have tried getting it to "fade" LOL, and that succeeded to the degree that J.W's today could not explain it to a member of the public, "Go to our Website" would be their response, but with the Internet which explodes the nonsense that the actual year 1914 can be pinpointed from any Bible "prophecy" in just a click or two, they have to hide what they said before, but keep the idea we are in the End of the Last Days, there only way of retaining members at present.

But the "Last Days"nonsense is as tenuous, or more so, in one way than 1914 ! In the Gospel Jesus said that those standing there listening to him would see it all happen, his "return" etc. It didn't , and to look for a "Greater Fulfillment"of an already obviously failed prophecy, is just plain SILLY !!

3

Who really ARE the "true Christians?"

by BoogerMan in

w93 11/1 p. 32 - "today, there has to exist a people, not just scattered individuals, who fit jesus’ description of true christians and who make god’s name manifest.".

and here was i thinking that true christians had to proclaim jesus' name!!!

matthew 10:18; mark 13:9; luke 24:48; john 1:15; john 5:37; john 8:18; john 15:26, 27; acts 1:8; acts 9:15; acts 10:39; acts 10:43; acts 13:31; acts 22:15; acts 22:20; acts 23:11; acts 26:16; 1 corinthians 1:6; 1 timothy 2:6, 7; 2 timothy 1:8; 1 john 5:9; revelation 1:9; revelation 12:17; revelation 17:6; revelation 19:10; revelation 20:4. how could the faithful evil slave get something so important, so wrong?.

Phizzy

Is that new version of the "No True Scotsman " Fallacy ?

21

Christians Encouraged to Read 'Pagan' Works

by peacefulpete in

clement of alexandria.

the stromata, or miscellanies.

book vi.

Phizzy

P.S shows in the post above yours, quite clearly, that "Luke" was very likely a convert to Judaism, and then to Christianity according to what he writes.

6

Trinity n latest ideas actually fit in more with JWs ideas?

by Mikejw in

there is a new trinity teaching that says jesus is a separate person but at the same time all three are one.. https://youtu.be/jdok0gedjau?si=bbdwoprdpzvzwkfz.

this is basically the same as watchtower teach that jesus is so much like his father in every way that you could almost call them the same.. things have changed from when i was pioneering with the old trinity brochure.

Phizzy

" JWs are often too afraid to purchase or read one of Christendom's or Judaism's Bibles for fear "evil" or academia might "rub off" on them--but they would just learn the above if they did. "

You have touched there P.S. upon how deep the mind control goes. This was sadly my experience to a degree. From an early age I wished to gain a greater understanding of the Scriptures, and so purchased Commentaries on every Bible Book, and was not afraid to read them, but being a born-in, the mind control made me dismiss the obvious, and not draw correct conclusions.

For example, I had a couple of Commentaries on "Daniel", both pointed out that it was written just prior to 164 BCE, but my indoctrinated mind dismissed that as wrong ! very sadly. I do think that reading those Scholarly Books helped in my gradual awakening though.

It was only a short time after my initial Epiphany that I began to take as the default position that the JW org. view on any Scripture was wrong, and work back from that position, rarely was my default position confounded !

The Org's Eisegetical approach to Scripture means they ARE wrong about "Michael" and most other things, and their explanation of the Divinity of Christ is far from nuanced or full, and they do not seem to understand, or pretend not to, what the Trinity Doctrine is and why the Church Fathers and later others eventually, naturally, based upon Scripture, brought it about.

6

Trinity n latest ideas actually fit in more with JWs ideas?

by Mikejw in

there is a new trinity teaching that says jesus is a separate person but at the same time all three are one.. https://youtu.be/jdok0gedjau?si=bbdwoprdpzvzwkfz.

this is basically the same as watchtower teach that jesus is so much like his father in every way that you could almost call them the same.. things have changed from when i was pioneering with the old trinity brochure.

Phizzy

For those interested in more on Leviathan, and the Chaos Conflict Myth, then this great thread by the Poster "Leolaia" is informative, she no longer Posts here sadly.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/68098/skinny-on-leviathan-rahab-monsters

48

Is Jesus God?

by Sea Breeze in

i know that a lot of historical names have claimed to be a god.

but, jesus arguably claimed to be god.

scripture says he's the creator.

Phizzy

" It is obvious that Jesus is Jehovah God's only-begotten son. also called only-begotten god. " You are using the VERY POOR N.W.T version of the Bible evidently, .....to prove a point ?

You really MUST try harder !