Phizzy

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Posts by Phizzy

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  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

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  Phizzy

  Mikejw, same old lies then !
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  10

  Jehovah's Witnesses PIMOs: Beware Of This Great & Present Danger!

  by Golden4Altar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovah's witnesses pimos: beware of this great & present danger!.

  to see the video that covers this topic, please click here:.

  https://jehovahstruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102.

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  Phizzy

  "Better to lose your family than yourself/integrity."

  That was the position I found myself in when I walked away, I could not be a hypocrite whatever the cost. It didn't pan out that bad at all, I was lucky !

  Of course, if you wish to "fade", as I did, there is Great and Present Danger for a year or too at least after you leave ! be careful out here !
  
  
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  30

  Moving on in a new chapter

  by redsetter2 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  moving on is the hardest thing anyone has to cope with.. i have officially left the org.

  and now it feels my family have been waiting to do this for a long time, officially shunning me, even though they were practically doing this whilst i was still in.. it feels like i've accomplished a victory and at the same time i feel guilty i was tangled up in communication with someone who "hid who they were" claiming to leak information from bethel.

  i got the call from the man who i thought i worked with.

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  Phizzy

  LongHairGal said, regarding the J.W Calendar " I refused to hang this thing up.. I wondered if this was just a bad choice?? "

  Thanks for that thought , I remember I refused to hang one , one year, maybe the very same one ?? and never did again, I know some J.W's looked quizzically at my "Worldly" Calendar that I hung instead, but no one ever asked why, I guess they knew I had always been a bit of a Rebel.

  But now I wonder too if that was more, the beginning of my reversing out of the Cult ? It is impossible to identify the beginning I guess, but I did eventually Move on the new Chapter of my life, thankfully.

  I am now a very happy ex-ex J.W, in that no vestige of the effects of J.W.ism are left in me, and those memories of my J.W life are like I am reading about someone else's life, a guy in another Country, a Country I do not personally know.
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  20

  Pioneer Hours

  by Etude in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone know how many hours were required to be a pioneer back in or around 1970?.

  etude..

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  Phizzy

  Special Pioneer 140 hours IIRC. And in those days most Reg. and Sp. Pio's did GENUINE hours, no counting of Coffee breaks etc, or travelling time in most cases, it was HARD !
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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  Phizzy

  " The WTS cherrypicks their quotes. " YES ! but the average J.W does not realise this, and hence is fooled, cherry-picking, or "quote mining" is blatant lying.

  I first became sort of semi-conscious that this was going on when I was an active believing J.W but one thing that was something that worried me and started my "waking up" process was a quote in the old Trinity Brochure, gawd, how many years ago was that ? The quote interested me, so I looked up the full quote, and amazing ! to innocent gullible me at the time, the quote in full said the OPPOSITE of what the edited short quote in the Brochure appeared to say ! A Red Flag for me, there were many more subsequently.

  The cherry-picking of what the Church fathers said is another case , of course much of what they said is the opposite of what J.W org. teaches, but also the fact that the "Fathers" disagree heavily among themselves makes them useless as a group, as Authorities of Christian Doctrine and Thought.
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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  Phizzy

  Thanks Earnest, that Video was fascinating, and with high Production values, but being only 14 minutes or so long, was not as detailed or precise in some ways as I would have liked, but that's just me I guess.

  As usual it was made for the ordinary J.W, and perhaps one who has an above average interest (for a J.W) in this kind of thing.

  It is of note to me that they left the quote from a Scholar that said Priestley's group had gone back to "the original manuscripts" without comment.

  Not surprising, they want J.W's to take from this affirmation that perhaps the NWT is justified in its renderings by the work of Priestley & Co.

  No actual original MSS for any of the Bible exist of course, and I am guessing Priestley's Group only had access to, for the N.T, the ones available at the start of the 18th Century, I doubt they had access to Codex Alexandrinus, so would have been reliant on the MSS mentioned above.

  Sadly I doubt Robert Garnham's writings will be published any time soon, it would be fascinating to read, maybe a PDF or similar may appear at some time.

  The very well made and informative Video has traces of J.W Mind Control in it that will be taken by the average J.W as confirmation, whereas the Theology of Priestley and Garnham et al was what Russell and Rutherford espoused, most of whose writings the J.W org. now rejects.

  Thanks again for your Post.
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  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

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• 

  Phizzy

  TTWSYF asked about doubt on how much contact between the church fathers and the Apostles there could have been : I can't locate at present the Quote I was thinking of, but will return if I do and Post it, but meanwhile.

  This one bit I found, and copied, I can't remember from where or who wrote it ! :

  " The length and detail of this passage make it virtually irresistible for critics to bypass the layers of embedded discourse and treat this comment about the Gospels of Mark and Mathew as if they were a self-contained block of a tradition. It is not. The elder’s comment about Mark was presumably uttered not out of the blue but within some larger discourse context. This context is lost to us. Indeed, what the elder said is not by any means intact, but extracted, edited, and embedded by Papias into a different context of his own creation. Furthermore, Papias’s presentation of these remarks also does not come down to us intact, but only as preserved by Eusebius—and Eusebius’s agenda is different from Papias’s. Eusebius too extracted, edited, and embedded this statement into a context of his own making. We have to be cautious in interpreting it. As one scholar put it, “Papias says only what Eusebius wants him to say.” As a result, the most famous statement in antiquity about the origins of Mark and Matthew is a joint production of three different people, living at three different times, with three different purposes: the elder, Papias, and Eusebius. All of them have contributed to this passage in their different ways, and all of them had different purposes for discussing their writings. If we are to make sense of this, we will have do what scholars of fragmentary works have long known. We must deal with the fundamental issue of context."

  This is another : Richard Bauckham (Jesus and the Eyewitnesses):

  Many scholars have been unable to believe that Aristion and John the Elder had been personal disciples of Jesus, usually either because these scholars have understood Papias to be speaking of a time after the death of “the elders” and so presumably beyond the lifetime of Jesus’ contemporaries, or because they have not sufficiently distinguished the time about which Papias is writing from the time at which he is writing. Once we recognize that, at the time to which he refers, most of the disciples of Jesus had died but two were still alive and were among the prominent Christian teachers in Asia, we can see that the time about which he writes must be late in the first century. There is nothing in the least improbable about this."
• 
  30

  Moving on in a new chapter

  by redsetter2 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  moving on is the hardest thing anyone has to cope with.. i have officially left the org.

  and now it feels my family have been waiting to do this for a long time, officially shunning me, even though they were practically doing this whilst i was still in.. it feels like i've accomplished a victory and at the same time i feel guilty i was tangled up in communication with someone who "hid who they were" claiming to leak information from bethel.

  i got the call from the man who i thought i worked with.

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  Phizzy

  Those who carry Cognitive Dissonance for all of the years that those Charlatans have are masters at ignoring its prodding, I know, I ignored my Cog. Diss, for nearly six decades !

  But true, theirs must be worse than mine was. But it was my Cog, Diss, that led me to question, find out the truth about "Da truf", and leave.

  The Org. is now "Moving on In A New Chapter" of their chequered History.

  For anyone personally moving on in to their very own Chapter of Life, by getting free of all of the baleful influence of the Org. I wish you all the best ! Enjoy your freedom of mind and action, and use that freedom well !
• 
  31

  WT says 'Church Fathers were leading teachers'

  by youdontknowhim in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it jehovahs witnesses who acknowledge the church father as leading teachers?

  this is a very interesting statement by justin.

  do you accept origen as an authority when he said jesus is our god?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Phizzy

  Has the Org. said anything in recent years about the Church Fathers ? Of course they selectively chose quotes that suited their own Interpretation of Scripture and ignored all that did not agree with "Present Truth" as they call it.

  Quote Mining like that , while seemingly approving all that the the Church Fathers said, is dangerous once a person reads the Church Fathers for themselves.

  Those guys supposedly heard what they taught and believed from someone who supposedly knew the Apostles, but modern Scholarship has put those claims in doubt, and the fact that one Church Father will diametrically oppose what another teaches would mean the Apostles themselves were divided as to what was true.
• 
  153

  When JW.org drops 607BCE...

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  probably everyone else thought of this long ago, but i, being an "independent thunker" thunk of it just a coupla weeks ago.. we all know that since the year zero (on the fredfranzian calendar) the wtb&ts has defied archaeology and insisted that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, even though the physical evidence shows that 587 bce is a more likely date.

  in fact, the book "the gentile times reconsidered: have jehovah's witnesses been wrong all along about 607 bce?

  " by carl olof jonsson and rud persson made this conversation public.. it is a difference of 20 years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Phizzy

  D.o.C, they have been leaning that way for a while, the only problem with that, which they will have to ignore and still do as you say, is that the whole "End Times" thing then hangs on a thread, they have got away for years though with their Eisegetical interpretation of the words of Jesus about the generation that was standing listening to him, that generation died, and nothing had happened, the prophecy failed.

  Every other prophecy of the End Time is similarly time constrained, EVERY Bible Writer makes it plain he believed his predictions would come true shortly after the time he wrote them, all those predictions FAILED !

  But J.W's, in common with other "End Time" loving Christians, will ignore the proper interpretation and understanding of Scripture, so the tenuous claims of the Org. will still convince the gullible.