I read it in 3 days.. I went from having some doubts about stuff over the years I've been in (I'm in my 50s and a born-in) to knowing the whole thing is totally wrong. I went on to read in Search of Christian Freedom which I read in 2 weeks. The thing that upset me most was that I'd never heard of either Ray or his books before (I came across him in Wikipedia when I was looking at some stuff on JWs) and then I found out he'd died last year. I so wanted to thank him for showing me the REAL TRUTH!! Even though I am not physically free, I am now free in heart and mind and thought.
tornapart
JoinedPosts by tornapart
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finally read Crisis of Conscience
by A.Fenderson ini recently finished reading crisis of conscience.
in short, it was one of the most important books i've ever read, even considering that i left the kh 13 years ago.
i honestly cannot see how anyone could read it and still maintain that they believe in the wts religion--have any of you ever known someone to read it and actually still believe and be happy with the jw religion?
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A Small Gift To You. (I hope...)
by AllTimeJeff ini was an ex jw.
first lesson: be happy.
read books.
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tornapart
Thanks ATJ.. this is a great post. I'm new to all this and struggling, still inside the WTO but knowing it's all wrong. I have lots of negative feelings and as a positive person it's hard to handle. I know I need to move forward somehow and you've given some great suggestions. We all have a different way of dealing with it and any ideas from someone further along the road is a big help. Thanks!
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Some personal thoughts as 2011 comes to a close
by Terry infirst off, if you are in a safe place inside your head, merry christmas.
i was fortunate to have had childhood christmases in my home growing up.
many born-ins are probably never going to know what they missed.. also.... i am thinking about all the nice, friendly, happy things i've given up for jehovah and it saddens me.
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tornapart
Thanks for this Terry. I am one of those.. new to TTATT. Confused, angry, hurt and depressed. Forced to stay in because of fear of shunning. My faith in God and Christ is as strong as ever just my faith in the GB etc. is gone. Physically I am still in, mentally and emotionally I am gone. It's a very hard place to be.
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The great unanswered question - WHO chose the Governing Body to serve as representatives?
by cedars inwho is the governing body?.
put simply, the governing body purports to be a small group of anointed men (currently numbering 7) who represent a much larger group (numbering the thousands) of anointed individuals living on earth today.
in nearly every reference to their position of oversight over the worldwide brotherhood, the governing body refer to themselves as being representatives.... .
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tornapart
00DAD I like your illustration of the Emperors Clothes. I've thought of that myself. I've also thought it's like the Wizard of Oz.
I wanted to post a youtube video but don't know how..anyway it's called 'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain'. It's only 1 minute but
Wizard of Oz= GB
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Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning
by Qcmbr inthe jws were out in our area this morning and i bolted downstairs before my wife could waive them away as she normally does.. two ladies (mum and 24 year old daughter i later found out) initially stopped as i opened with a comment about how i couldn't trust a thing they say because they are taught to practice theocratic warfare.. the mother blinked and asked me what that was ( so it began ) i informed them both that they are allowed to lie or at least be evasive with the truth with worldy people.
she countered that they are taught not to lie so i again asked her if she knew what theocratic warfare meant and she again said no (first of my many - 'please go look that up' statements .).
i then moved onto the idea that they couldn't think independently outside the organisation due to fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned.
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tornapart
Well I can see where you're coming from Qcmbr (like the name btw) :) I guess the Mormons ae just as deluded as Jws. Maybe one of the sisters might do a bit of investigating but I hope it's not the younger one because she could leave and as you know it could tear the family apart. Is it worth it? For some it is. I prefer to just metally distance myself from it. It's difficult but I'm older and can cope. (I hope).
Just let me know where you live so I don't knock on your door!! LOL ;)
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The great unanswered question - WHO chose the Governing Body to serve as representatives?
by cedars inwho is the governing body?.
put simply, the governing body purports to be a small group of anointed men (currently numbering 7) who represent a much larger group (numbering the thousands) of anointed individuals living on earth today.
in nearly every reference to their position of oversight over the worldwide brotherhood, the governing body refer to themselves as being representatives.... .
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tornapart
The Governing Body choose themselves then tell us they were chosen by the Holy Spirit. Who are we to question it??
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Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning
by Qcmbr inthe jws were out in our area this morning and i bolted downstairs before my wife could waive them away as she normally does.. two ladies (mum and 24 year old daughter i later found out) initially stopped as i opened with a comment about how i couldn't trust a thing they say because they are taught to practice theocratic warfare.. the mother blinked and asked me what that was ( so it began ) i informed them both that they are allowed to lie or at least be evasive with the truth with worldy people.
she countered that they are taught not to lie so i again asked her if she knew what theocratic warfare meant and she again said no (first of my many - 'please go look that up' statements .).
i then moved onto the idea that they couldn't think independently outside the organisation due to fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned.
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tornapart
Thanks everyone for your comments. Jwfacts. Yours is a great site and I've read a lot of it. Celtic, I think you are right! Thomas it's good to be able to share with others these awful feelings of anger (even at ourselves for having believed it!) that we all understand here.
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Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning
by Qcmbr inthe jws were out in our area this morning and i bolted downstairs before my wife could waive them away as she normally does.. two ladies (mum and 24 year old daughter i later found out) initially stopped as i opened with a comment about how i couldn't trust a thing they say because they are taught to practice theocratic warfare.. the mother blinked and asked me what that was ( so it began ) i informed them both that they are allowed to lie or at least be evasive with the truth with worldy people.
she countered that they are taught not to lie so i again asked her if she knew what theocratic warfare meant and she again said no (first of my many - 'please go look that up' statements .).
i then moved onto the idea that they couldn't think independently outside the organisation due to fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned.
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tornapart
Living a lie is a huge burden. I wish I had the freedom to turn my back it. I wish I never had to turn up on anyone's doorstep uninvited. I would love to be able to tell all my family and friends the TATT. I have to keep silent and it's killing me slowly inside. Posts like this are very hard for someone like me to have to read. It's all painful stuff.
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Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning
by Qcmbr inthe jws were out in our area this morning and i bolted downstairs before my wife could waive them away as she normally does.. two ladies (mum and 24 year old daughter i later found out) initially stopped as i opened with a comment about how i couldn't trust a thing they say because they are taught to practice theocratic warfare.. the mother blinked and asked me what that was ( so it began ) i informed them both that they are allowed to lie or at least be evasive with the truth with worldy people.
she countered that they are taught not to lie so i again asked her if she knew what theocratic warfare meant and she again said no (first of my many - 'please go look that up' statements .).
i then moved onto the idea that they couldn't think independently outside the organisation due to fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned.
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tornapart
Thomas, thankyou for the welcome. And I completely understand where you're coming from. Personally I hate going on the 'ministry', when I I do I respect people's right to turn me away and I never push it. To me a 'no' is a 'no'. If someone is happy to talk then that's great and I enjoy getting to know someone a little and leave with a smile. I just mean that there are different ways of saying things, depending on one's motives. If genuine love and kindness are there on both sides there is no argument, just a difference of opinion. It may be easy for some of you to say, 'well, just stop going out then'. But when you were a 'born-in', have been in for decades, all your family is in, all the friends you grew up with and the alternative is to lose them all, you just have to keep on. I could go inactive but it would be very difficult without being asked why. I do the bare minimum, I can't do any less.
However if you get a bolshy, self righteous JW (of which I know a few) knock on your door then I would say go for it. But many of us are well meaning and sincere and we have feelings. These two sisters sounded genuine to me, from the posters description. I'm just saying for everyone to try showing a little more human kindness if possible.
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Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning
by Qcmbr inthe jws were out in our area this morning and i bolted downstairs before my wife could waive them away as she normally does.. two ladies (mum and 24 year old daughter i later found out) initially stopped as i opened with a comment about how i couldn't trust a thing they say because they are taught to practice theocratic warfare.. the mother blinked and asked me what that was ( so it began ) i informed them both that they are allowed to lie or at least be evasive with the truth with worldy people.
she countered that they are taught not to lie so i again asked her if she knew what theocratic warfare meant and she again said no (first of my many - 'please go look that up' statements .).
i then moved onto the idea that they couldn't think independently outside the organisation due to fear of being disfellowshipped and shunned.
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tornapart
I've been lurking on the site for weeks now and felt I needed to reply to this comment. I don't know how many of you still believe in God and Christ but those of you that do should really rethink your responses to this post.
You must remember how destroying to the soul it is to have everything you've ever believed all your life ripped apart. To know that you've been lied to for decades and worse that yu as an intellient person actually believed them. That this organisation you looked to with respect for guidance from God is nothing more than the Wizard of Oz.
I was ready for it. It was the new 'generation' idea that set the ball rolling for me. I've been around long enough to see several changes to it. I was there in the 60's listening to the hype about 1975. But still I believed. I couldn't visit sites like this, it felt wrong. So I started with Wikipedia. What I read on there was enough for me to find out about Ray Franz. I downloaded his books and read them from cover to cover. Over the years I have had many doubts about many things but chose to 'shelve' them, this was like opening Pandora's box. Now I have to start a new belief system all over agiain and it's a real struggle. I'm starting with my bible... on it's own.
These poor women may not be ready for this. You cannot tear someone's beliefs apart on the doorstep. All you succeed in doing is distressing and humiliating them. Apart from anything else it's unkind. Did Jesus rip apart the beliefs of the people in his day. Those that were blindly following their leaders? No.. he felt pity for them because they tossed and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd. He patiently, lovingly and kindly taught them something new and wonderful. The scathing words he left for the 'top men'.
I just want to ask the poster. What was your motive behind this? Did it make you feel good? Did you get it all of your chest? Did you enjoy airing your great knowledge and wisdom? Or were you really interested in helping these poor women? I remember once many years ago coming aross a borna gain christian. She made a huge impression on me on the doorstep because her genuiness in wanting to save me shone through. She was kind, tried to show me where my beliefs were wrong, at the time I couldn't see it but her parting words were that she'd pray for me. She truly meant it. She wasn't trying to make me feel bad, she wasn't airing her knowledge. She was showing me love. And I've never forgotten it. Someone like you I am dreading meeting on the 'ministry'. Yes, I still have to go out and do 'my bit' for fear of being shunned. I have to live with it. I'll be with someone else who I can't say anything to about what I now believe. So on your doorstep I would have to listen to all this... and take it in silence.
Maybe you feel proud of yourself for what you did and what you said but please think twice next time someone calls on your door.