Posts by pale.emperor

19

I'm a Non-JW looking to ask a few questions re dfing

by RocketQueen in

jw
friends

someone close to me has been brought up as a jw since a very early age.

he's now looking to exit.

he was baptised as a teen and is now early 20s.

pale.emperor

RocketQueen

I was born in this religion and in the process of trying to get out while retaining my family. The best way i can describe it is like being born in North Korea: You're told one side of the story and that anyone outside is not to be trusted. You're constantly scrutinized. If you try to leave of your own choice you lose your family and friends. Because an announcement is made that "so-and-so is no longer a JW". Now, everyone in the Kingdom Hall assumes you've been disfellowshipped. And then the rumors go around about what it could be. Most assume some sort of sexual scandal.

23

Drifting what i've feared has started already...

by pale.emperor in

im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

pale.emperor

Grow a pair and be a man and put these clowns in their place.

WingCommander, i appreciate what you're saying but this has nothing to do with fear of any men. It's the FACT that if i tell them im leaving i'll lose my family. And most likely labelled an apostate. Which is an unforgivable sin so no one in my family will ever speak to me again.

Imagine being a North Korean and trying to leave North Korea. It's like that.

23

Drifting what i've feared has started already...

by pale.emperor in

im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

pale.emperor

Don't say a word. Don't meet with the Elders. If you don't say anything, they can't use anything against you. We have told NOBODY in our family how we really feel. No one knows and we aren't telling. If you need to vent, vent on here or keep a journal.
If you don't want to do their little required tasks, just tell them you are busy or are not feeling well. Nothing more.
You don't owe anyone an explanation. People, in general, are nosy (especially JW's). If they are going to talk about you, they will have to make up something. Not only does this drive em crazy, it is kinda fun to watch them try so hard to extract info, only to find you're not playing into their hands.

But the problem is my wife's dad is an elder. And i live in the same apartment block as another elder and his wife that drive us to the meetings. This elder has already started putting pressure on me to go on the ministry.

I must admit, part of me feels quite sad. Because this has been my personality and entire model of the world since i was a baby. I've got many happy family memories as a JW. Anyone else who left felt that?

9

Anybody remember those brothers that would harass, and hound the elders into making them, finally, appoint him as an elder himself?

by Dunedain in

lol, for some reason, i was thinking back to all the many "characters" that were often so prevalent in kingdom halls back in the day.

they are, i am sure, still there now, but fortunately i haven't been in a kh for like 20 years.. anyway, i remembered this one brother, who was dying to be made an elder.

he could not believe he wasn't an elder yet, after sooo many years.

pale.emperor

I've seen what you've described almost exactly in my hall. The guy's now moved to another hall because our elders "all have it in for him".

He is actually a nice guy... until you upset someone in his family, then they dont go to the hall for a few weeks, stop talking to you and talk about you behind your back.

So maybe he's not far off after all!

23

Drifting what i've feared has started already...

by pale.emperor in

im in the process of drifting out.

my entire family are jw's.

my wife and her family are too.

pale.emperor

Im in the process of drifting out. My entire family are JW's. My wife and her family are too. If you like take a look at my very first post that gives a quick rundown of what brings me here.

Basically i can sum up my crisis of faith as follows:

1. I believe it's become overly bureaucratic. - No matter how much or how little i do I'm expected to do more, and report how many hours i put in in the ministry. I see no scriptural basis for this and feel uncomfortable that it's treated as a "must do" thing. By my own reasoning, a JW will happily tell you that the first century Christians didn't celebrate Christmas, Easter or birthdays but they also didn't report how many hours they preached either.

2. I dont believe that holy spirit is involved in appointing elders. - I read an account somewhere where an elder in the USSR turned out to be a Soviet spy that was sent on a mission to infiltrate the witnesses. He started as a study, was baptized and progressed to a min servant and then and elder... all the time as a soviet spy. He eventually gave them all up. So my question is, why would the holy spirit direct them to appoint a spy as an elder.

3. Too much emphasis is placed on what you're seen to be doing rather than your spirituality. - I think a persons relationship with God is very personal, that God knows you and the reason behind everything. That Jesus is the mediator between God and man. But with the JW's we're told to confess to the elders, seek repentance through the elders etc.

4. People who are DF'd are made to feel that they are cut off from God - when in reality they're cut off from the JW's. They dont make the decision for God.

5. The understanding keeps changing. - This is a major stumbling block for me. Let imagine i went back in time to 1980. If i told expressed current JW understanding to my 1980 friends and family I'd be labelled an apostate.

There are a few more but i'd be here all day. The thing is i dont hold any hatred or animosity towards JW's. If they want to believe what they have that's up to them. But if i disassociate or get DF'd id lose my entire family. And if i tried to tell them why im leaving they'd think im an apostate. When in reality im saying "i dont know. Right now i dont know what to believe and it'd be a lie, and a sin, to go along with something that i dont believe in."

Also, i dont want my daughter to get involved in an organization where she'll be scrutinized for everything she does. Made to live up to a certain standard and get married at age 18 to a 20yo boy.

Today i got a text asking for my report. I haven't been on the ministry in 6 months so i dont even know why they're asking. Last year i asked to be taken off sound desk, mics, and giving prayers. I was supposed to come off giving talks but they said no because apparently im a "talented speaker" and "it'd encourage you spiritually".

Should i take this opportunity to tell them im stepping back and not going anymore? If i do i'd more than likely get a shepherding visit and made to admit my feelings and DF'd. I just want to be left alone.

20

"It's the demons..."

by pale.emperor in

one thing that really frustrates me inside is how quite a few jw's (especially my family) actually believe that demons like to inhabit second hand vases, or clothes etc.

my sister and mother are so bad with this that they wont even talk about it - because even talking about it "brings demons into your home".

so any attempt to show them that it's unscriptural is shut off with, sometimes them literally going "lalalalalalala im not listening".. i used to believe it myself (why wouldn't i?, i was told by my mother and father it was fact).. what i'd like to point out to anyone that would let me debunk it is this:.

pale.emperor

One thing that really frustrates me inside is how quite a few JW's (especially my family) actually believe that demons like to inhabit second hand vases, or clothes etc. My sister and mother are so bad with this that they wont even talk about it - because even talking about it "brings demons into your home". So any attempt to show them that it's unscriptural is shut off with, sometimes them literally going "lalalalalalala im not listening".

I used to believe it myself (why wouldn't i?, i was TOLD by my mother and father it was FACT).

What I'd like to point out to anyone that would let me debunk it is this:

If you were a demon with all that power, would you use that power to live in second hand objects?

Where in the bible does it mention anything like that?

Where did you get that belief from?

If it didn't come from the bible (God), then where did it come from? Man?

It's also worth pointing out that I've heard loads of experiences where people say they've seen/heard/felt things which the instantly put down as demonic. But since looking into things all of those things have been explained medically, scientifically or psychologically. Also, im finding people who claim to have had an experience are re-telling stories i've heard from others. It's always their mothers-sister-friend, or a friend in another congregation.

Anyone know where this belief came from?

I'd like to point out that despite what some people say, it's not actually an official JW belief. Which is what annoys me. Because JW's should be of the same mind.

P.S. - Just think of all those eBay bargains they're missing out on. Second hand trainers, antiques, books etc.

7

Feeling Jealous of True Believers

by Naoscillator in

what a simple life it is to be a true believer.

the cocksureness of people who never for a moment question their core beliefs is something i have come to envy.

it's altogether foreign, but it sure looks nice over on the other side.. why do some people step into the void of uncertainty while others do everything in their power never to even go near it?

pale.emperor

Surely knowledge is to be treasured? Im sure there's a scripture that says something along those lines.

My mum is one of these people. If a WT told her black was white she'd believe it. 10 years ago she wouldn't have the internet in her house because it was a cesspool of pornography and a design of satans world. Now she not only has it, but preaches how wonderful the JW's are for realizing it's potential.

77

Trying To Leave - Im Going Crazy

by pale.emperor in

this is my first post.

i really feel i need to leave the jw's rather than go along pretending everything is perfect etc.

no friends, me at work.

pale.emperor

Hi guys. Sorry I've been off this for about a month. Been mad busy. I'll explain how things have progressed:

My wife's OCD got so bad that she was hospitalized for a few weeks. I looked after my 2yo daughter 1 on 1 and have really bonded with her like nothing else. During this i got to thinking about when my wife was disfellowshipped and how her father cut her off for the entire year. Let me be very clear about how i feel to everybody on here and any JW lurkers - there is NO WAY... EVER that i would cut off my daughter if she were ever disfelloweshipped. No matter what she did, no matter if she repented or not, my daughter can absolutely guarantee my unconditional love and help. I dont care if an elder, a circuit overseer or a governing body member personally visits my house and tells me to cut off association - it aint happening. There is no power on earth strong enough to make me cut her off.

So... that said... why would i continue in an organization that would expect that off me?

So im in the process of drifting. Haven't been on the ministry in 6 months. Why would i? You expect me to tell others to join when i can barely stand it myself?

My father in law said something i picked up on a few weeks ago. We were in the hall and my daughter was singing a song from Frozen to the other little kids. He turned to me and said "Even if this isn't the truth, isn't it a wonderful place for our children to grow up?" - and im thinking... so should people stay because its nice for their kids?

There's another elders family in our hall and their kids are praised for sitting statue still all through the meetings. They have their notebooks, bible etc... all very nice. But you can bet those kids have the personality of a gnat. You can just imagine how they're going to function as adults.

33

YOUNG PEOPLE ASK Should I Grow a Beard?

by neat blue dog in

ok, ok, so the actual title of the article released today on jw-org is "young people askshould i get a tattoo?

", but i thought i'd replace some words and phrases from the actual article, as follows:"regardless of the motive, you should think long and hard before deciding to have anything growing out of .

your skin!

pale.emperor

This is a hot topic in my cong and many other congs here in the UK. No one can find any scriptural basis for telling you to shave so they usually use the "modest appearance" or "it's unkempt". But the problem is EVERY worshiper of Jehovah has a beard in all the illustrations in the books.

I remember one brother telling me (when i had a beard) "id love to grow a beard. My wife would love it if i did. But i know it would keep me from being appointed. So why make it hard for myself? What not just shave it off?"

If i moved to another part of the world where having a beard was considered offensive or dirty then i'd go along with that and respect the culture. But in this case, who decides when something is unkempt?

I can go further than that... there's an elder in another cong that is well known for being strict. He brings a spare white shirt to the hall in case the visiting speaker turns up in another colored shirt!

13

The Curious Case Of Brother B

by pale.emperor in

there was a case in my old congregation that is shrouded in mystery that i'd like to share and get your views.

this is something i've wanted to talk about for years but it's strongly shot down if you even try to talk about it in my old congregation.. it involves a certain brother b.. in my old congregation this brother was well liked.

as a kid, we all knew him for being fascinated with dinosaurs.

pale.emperor

My guess is he was caught cross dressing.

Could he be a transgender but hiding it and only his wife knows? Maybe she is blackmailing him and that is how she got all of the business.

No i don't think it was anything like that. They're divorced but it wasn't a scriptural divorce.

Unfortunately, those who did know have either died, left or are reluctant to talk about it. I think if you ask they see it as "you're not supposed to ask why someone got DF'd" but he wasn't DF'd so it should be ok ground for conversation.
Those who did find out either left, stepped down from their appointments are severely dropped in meeting attendance.