It's a shame the KH's dont have the beauty of other churches or temples. The Mormons got it right when it came to building temples. You'd be forgiven for thinking this KH is an office or warehouse.
pale.emperor
JoinedPosts by pale.emperor
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9
Circuit hall for sale - Netherlands (even has a website)
by Anony Mous inhttps://congreshal.nl/.
built in 1966, renovated 4 times since last in 2011, they then built a new one for eur 8m and sold this one.. roughly translated: the foundation for building and exploitation of congregation buildings of jehovah's witnesses (department bennekom) is happy to announce the sale of the congregation hall at edesweg 147 in bennekom.. the well maintained building of approximately 5700 sq meters divided in two layers with approximately 300 parking places on included property offers great possibilities for various fits.. on the edge of the "food valley" and "knowledge axis" lays the place bennekom currently fully under development.
both the reachability and the compartments of the buildings offer the space for various fits and cooperation between interested parties.. .
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pale.emperor
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Marc & Cora on YouTube causing unnecessary divisions
by jambon1 inwhat is it with this pair?
why do they have to constantly have a bitch about guys like john cedars?
a very recent video of them shows them calling him a 'village idiot' and making other disparaging claims.
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pale.emperor
I personally don't think the JWs in Russia should be banned. Banning something just makes it more sought after. I remember when Eminem was new on the scene, here in the UK there were TV documentaries, media reports etc all saying how terrible and dangerous his lyrics were... his record sales sky-rocketed.
Banning something isnt the way. The borg work that way, banning certain websites, banning certain family members. If someone wants to believe an invisible Jesus chose a the Watchtower in 1919 as his org even though it was pretty much an entirely new religion then that's their business. We all know the JWs love the idea that they're being persecuted, why give them the satisfaction?
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Marc & Cora on YouTube causing unnecessary divisions
by jambon1 inwhat is it with this pair?
why do they have to constantly have a bitch about guys like john cedars?
a very recent video of them shows them calling him a 'village idiot' and making other disparaging claims.
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pale.emperor
Cedars has and will, step on anyone he has to in order to be "Grand Apostate Master #1." He thinks he's the rightful heir to the throne of Raymond Franz. He insulted Mike & Kim, stepped on Copyright Laws with Ray's book, has been caught outright lying, was banned long ago from this very forum for stirring sh*t up, and that's only the crap I know about. He's a self-aggrandizing sleezeball out to make a name and $$ for himself. A Raymond Franz, he is most certainly NOT. He's not even close to a Paul Grundy or Barbara Anderson.
^Sources?^
I havent bought or read his book at, at the moment, i've no desire to. But i do enjoy his videos.
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We Pass the Bread and the Wine Just like in the Bible! But, why is forbidden to eat?
by lusitano o tuga insee what bridget azaz did!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzbe5yo7uq4.
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pale.emperor
Interesting this is, i used to work with a Wiccan. Although i was a little scared of her (simply because she was openly Wiccan) i used to have some very interesting conversations with her about religion. She'd dabbled in many of the more darker, scary religions before becoming Wiccan. When she heard about the JW version of the memorial she said straight away "oh, like a black mass?" and thought we were doing it because we didn't believe in Jesus. When i explained that, no, we do believe in Jesus but only some partake she was adamant that it's a similar ritual that theistic Satanists or Luciferians do (cant remember which one it was) to deliberately reject the body and blood of Christ. She told me that some spit on it, some simply pass it without eating it and, so i was told, one person ate the bread then vomited it into the wine.
It could be pure coincidence that the GB make 8 million followers perform a black mass once a year or it could be they're doing it deliberately as their little joke. I dont know. Interesting thought though.
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Marc & Cora on YouTube causing unnecessary divisions
by jambon1 inwhat is it with this pair?
why do they have to constantly have a bitch about guys like john cedars?
a very recent video of them shows them calling him a 'village idiot' and making other disparaging claims.
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pale.emperor
I think there are far too many ex-JW couples on YouTube. It's getting silly now. John Cedars is, i think, the better produced, written and thought out. He clearly puts a lot of time in to make them. I wouldn't have the time or patience to do it.
I do think ex-JWs online should support eachother, not bitch about the other one. If you dont have anything nice to say about them, dont say it. Thats my motto.
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My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General
by pale.emperor inthis past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.
waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.
and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.
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pale.emperor
I can totally see why ancient people would see a pretty lake or a majestic mountain top and want to ascribe a god or goddess to them. In their primitive way it was a way of showing reverence to something wonderful and beautiful that would outlive them all.
I can relate more to the ancient Greeks with their pantheon of gods that are neither benevolent or inherently good. They're selfish, playful and at times wrathful. Living for their own pleasures and literally playing chess with us humans. I can see why they'd create gods like that because each one is an exaggeration of human nature. We have the lustful satyrs ravishing who they please, Zeus putting it about everywhere and having affairs, Hades keeping the dead etc
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Cuts since 2012
by pepperheart ini know that on paper the watchtower have about 8 million members but what if lots of them are just around so they dont get shunned and dont give any money in the box..they have been making cuts for a long time and in 2012 they closed 20 branch offices around the world,of course some people are giving lots of, money but they have to find the money for from 40 and 60 million magazaines a month..
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pale.emperor
I've only been out 10 months, is there a set recommended donation expected per publisher? Almost sounds like a tithe.
I never donated a penny even when I was hardcore JW. Couldn't afford to for one thing.
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My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General
by pale.emperor inthis past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.
waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.
and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.
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pale.emperor
Thanks for your comments guys. I now think prayer is simply people talking to themselves or re-affirming something to themselves. Hey, they might feel better afterward, but to me that's just telling yourself you'll be ok.
I do something similar now, when i get a little anxious about something rather than praying i just say to myself "nah, it'll be fine" and the worry usually goes.
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My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General
by pale.emperor inthis past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.
waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.
and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.
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pale.emperor
1. What about a hateful god that enjoys misery? Zero God or Loving God aren't the only options...
I never considered that. Would that make the Satan character the goodie? Or simply in cahoots with YHWH to cause misery and confusion.
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My Current Views About God, Relgion, JWs and Life In General
by pale.emperor inthis past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through.
waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc.
and i've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew.
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pale.emperor
This past year has been the most life changing year anyone could ever go through. Waking up, leaving the cult, separating from my wife, research, research, research, reading, pondering etc. and I've found myself having to re-learn and re-evaluate everything i thought i knew. I just want to explain where i am now in terms of what i think and believe and i'd be interested in getting your thoughts. Particularly from cofty (the most atheist atheist i've read on here) and from full-on religious ex-JWs.
1. There probably is no God: If there ever was a God it appears to me that we should refer to this deity as "it" because it'll neither be male or female. So maybe this God sets in motion the process for creation then steps back and leaves. It doesn't care, it doesn't intervene, it doesn't want or need our prayers. Therefore, if God does exist, it's not worthy of my attention. Testing mankind? Punishing children and all their descendants for parents mistakes? Allowing children to come to harm? A loving god wouldn't allow this to happen at all, never mind about "he'll step in at some point in the future". The future is no good, we need help now. Admittedly, im not the most well read on evolution (I've read The God Delusion, and Cofty's posts but that's it) but it makes a lot more sense that living things are constantly adapting to their environment and the "weaker" ones dying off. So we'd only see the ones that "make it". To look at these and say "oh God designed them" is absurd because there's so many terrible "creations" out there like the guinea worm or that other one that's only purpose in life is to burrow into the eyeballs of animals and humans to make them blind.
So lets look at it this way, what if there is no god? What if the universe that we know of came about on it's own. An infinite amount of time with an infinite combination of conditions, probabilities, planets, stars, solar systems, and one pops up which we now call earth. After billions of years conditions eventually become right for simple life forms to exist. Then conditions get better still due to distance from the sun, humidity, gas levels etc and we have the Cambrian explosion. This means there is no "sin". There is no predestination, no afterlife, just a cold hard truth that everything has a death. Stars die, plants die, animals die and we too will die. So it's important that we live the life we have now.
2. Humans seem to have higher morals than any of these "gods": Dont kill, dont cheat others, be nice to everyone where possible. Simple, yes? You dont need a book or a religion to do these things. Yet, in the bible we see Abraham with a wife and Hagar. Who was Hagar? What was she for? Well, she had at least one child with him so we know what one of her purposes where. She wasn't his wife. Solomon, he had 300 wives and 700 concubines. What are concubines? What's their purpose? They weren't his wives but it was perfectly acceptable for Abraham and Solomon to have - what i believe to be - sex slaves, or at best, maids that they can have sex with.
And then there's stoning. Can you imagine being accused of something and knowing you're going to be stoned to death. Members of your own family are to be the first to throw the stones too. These arnt little pebbles, and they're not big bricks either, they're a certain size with the purpose of giving you a horrific, traumatic, slow, painful death. What sort of god sanctions this?
There are many people out there who tell me that without the bible you'd have no morals. I find the opposite to be true. If someone is not killing someone simply because they're told not to and being "good" simply because they're told to, then they're not really righteous at all.
3. If there is no God then we're all responsible for our own actions: Which, to me, is a lot more comforting. It makes things easier. I dont sit there hoping God will feed the poor people in Africa, or rescue someone from a landslide in Colombia, not will it end homelessness. We can stop those things if we work together. If i eat a nice meal, i thank the farmers who grew the crops, tilled the soil, and cultivated the food. If i overcome hardship, it was my own actions and anyone else who helped me. See, i used to think anything good = thank Jehovah. Anything bad = it's this wicked world. That's black and white thinking and we're not giving credit where it's due to ourselves and those around us.
4. Jesus was a deluded, apostate Jew who started a cult: Whether he was sincere or not, this character of Jesus was - no matter how you cut it - an apostate Jew. He was raised a Jew then in his late 20s/early 30s he "draws off followers after himself" (WT definition of an apostate) and "explains" the Torah to his followers. His miracles as recorded in the bible didn't happen. It's very common for people to have legends and stories told about them after their death to make them sound better than they actually where. Also, if you take someone like David Blaine or Derren Brown and put them in AD 30 they would easily pass themselves off as divine. And there were other messiah claimants back then who also had followers. In the case of Jesus, his one stuck.
5. Paul started his own brand of Christianity: I dont know if Pauls conversion was genuine, but it's clear to me that Paul's view of Jesus's teaching were not the same as Jesus's. For example, Jesus was more about mercy, love and forgiveness - with Paul we see him not allowing women to teach, to remain silent etc. Also, it's interesting that Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 3:4 "For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?" - this, to me, tells me that Paul is teaching one version of Christianity, Apollos another, Jesus apostles are doing theirs too. But it's ok. As long as Christ is at the center it's all good. This is where things go wrong. These little groups split off into other religions and those religions split off again, and again until we have literally thousands of interpretations of Christianity.
6. The Watchtower Society is a cult: Maybe the governing body is sincere, i dont know. But the very fact that they will make independent research a sin and demonize the reputations of those that leave for any reason is very suspect. The ever changing doctrine re-branded as "new light" is a work of genius, in that you can claim it's God's will to clarify your beliefs rather than "changing" beliefs. It seems to me that it became a cult when Rutherford got his hands on it. He knew what he was doing. Deluded, con-man, mentally unstable, maybe all three - but he took a millennial doomsday movement (by fraudulent underhanded ways if you look into it) and turned into his personal printing press to promote his own ideas. Don't like his ideas? Then prepare to be vilified and expelled and your reputation destroyed in his books. The fact that he wrote to Hitler prior to WWII indicates that he was playing the game. "Dont ban my cult Mr Hitler, we agree with many of your policies, the Jews are crooks" then when it doesn't work he suddenly becomes anti-facist.
So far, this is where i am. I'm open to scrutiny and critique in my search for facts and truth.