Posts by pale.emperor

2

UK CHAT magazine: ABUSED by Dad AND Uncle Charlie

by darkspilver in

the following 1,200 word article is from chat magazine - a popular british weekly women's magazine with a circulation of approximately 225,000 copies which makes it around the 4th most popular women's weekly.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/chat_(magazine).

the same experience (but a different article) appeared in may 2017 in the british newspapers the sunday mirror / the daily record - see my post below which also includes related links with more background information:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5117651812614144/uk-daily-mirror-girl-who-abused-dad-5-years-asked-jws-help-but-got-molested-church-elder-too.

pale.emperor

Great article. Thanks for sharing.

26

Born Ins, How Did Your Parents Get "The Truth™"?

by pale.emperor in

born ins are in a unique position in that we never knew any other way of life.

no birthdays, christmas and overly superstitious family just seemed normal.

when my parents talked about their pre-jw life it seemed like they were talking about completely different people (actually, that's true, the cult had taken their real selves).. so i'd be interested in hearing how your parents were indoctrinated.. my dad.

pale.emperor

Born ins are in a unique position in that we never knew any other way of life. No birthdays, Christmas and overly superstitious family just seemed normal. When my parents talked about their pre-JW life it seemed like they were talking about completely different people (actually, that's true, the cult had taken their real selves).

So I'd be interested in hearing how your parents were indoctrinated.

MY DAD

My dad was, in the 1960s, into motorbikes. Try to imagine it, it's 1964 and you and your best mate hop on your motorbike and travel around Europe for a few months. My dad spoke very fondly of those times, he also told me "in Denmark i've seen things you would never imagine. People think Amsterdam is a sex obsessed place? 1960s Denmark was worse". Despite my pressing further he wouldn't go into detail. But, a quick google search when i was older filled me in.

Anyway, back in Britain, dad got run over by a lorry. He very nearly died. His pelvis was snapped in half, broken ribs, punctured bladder and some other things. He was saved thanks to... blood transfusions... he was in hospital for a few years recovering. He had to learn to walk again. While in hospital, as he was almost fully recovered he helped out the nurses and doctors by dishing out food and drinks to the patients. He befriended a deaf man the same age as him (remember, my dad is still in his 20s). While in hospital he, again to relieve the boredom, he took sign language lessons from the mans family and by the time he left hospital a year or so later he was proficient.

My dads family were racists. They were very strong Protestants and hated Catholics, non whites and homosexuals. My dad and grandad were members of The Orange Lodge, which is a Protestant fraternal organization in Britain and Ireland with links to Northern Irish pro-union loyalism. Now, im not suggesting that they were racist because of being in the Orange Lodge but it didn't help. My grandad played bagpipes on the marches and my dad and his friends would go out "queer bashing" as they called it. Basically beating up homosexuals for no reason.

So yeah, not a very nice man so far.

Fast forward to 1976.

Remember the guy my dad toured Europe with on their motorbikes? He ended up dating my dads sister. One day this guy went clay pigeon shooting with another friend. The friend passed him a shotgun and it went off in the guys chest, killing him instantly.

This is where Jehovahs Witnesses come in. The story goes, that a JW knocked on my dads families door and my dad was very rude and aggressive to him. The JW was a kind old man who was shaken up and left quite afraid. My dad felt bad prayed to God to reveal himself to him. THE NEXT DAY (we've all heard this kind of story) another JW knocked and my dad accepted a bible study.

So my dad has had a near death experience (being knocked over by a lorry), his best friend has just died, he feels bad for being mean to a JW, then a JW knocks on his door. The study tells him how bad "the world" is, the resurrection hope (he can see his friend again), and he already feels bad for being mean to a JW. What do you think would happen next?

Dad gives up smoking, sells his motorbikes, buys a car and jumps into the door to door ministry. He's baptized within months. The 1975 fiasco was, fortunately for my dads JW study conductor, already 1 year ago so my dad missed out on that. My dad manages to convince two of his brothers and his dad into studying and they eventually get baptized too.

He eventually meets my mother, they marry and here starts my family, my cousins and my grandfather all being in the same congregation. We had very little to do with our non JW family so JWism just seemed normal to me growing up.

MY MUM

My mum was born into a sorry excuse for a family. Her father, a jobless, lazy, chain smoking, filthy, idiot somehow managed to marry and conceive children with a selfish, lazy, filthy, idiot woman. Together they'd pop out 6 children. All of which were left to fend for themselves. My mum and her sister being the eldest were essentially the surrogate parents to their brothers and sisters at the tender age of 8yo and 9yo. This is in the late 1950s/early 1960s. My mum told me that it was often that her parents would be in The Red Brick pub until they'd spent all their money in one evening, while her and her brothers/sisters were outside in nothing but an oversized shirt to keep them warm. Why spend money on food and clothes for your kids when you can get drunk and smoke yourself stupid?

So anyway, eventually people in the pub and in the street get concerned about this going on all the time and social services step in. My mum and her siblings are raised in various foster homes throughout their childhood. I dont know why, but they split them up and tended to move them around a lot. Sometimes they'd be lucky enough to be in the same home as one of their kin, other times not. My mum told me she was overjoyed one time when she was given her very own toothbrush and hairbrush by one couple. This couple, unable to have their own children, were very nice and kind and wanted to adopt her, unfortunately due to some legal red tape it wasn't possible.

Then one day... knock, knock.

A JW calls on the door. My mum is 15. The JW tells her how "the world" is so bad, people are uncaring, only Jehovah can make us happy etc. My mum had a study for a few weeks until her foster parents (the kind ones) stopped it. Apparently the Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained book shocked them to the core.

When my mum turned 16 she was returned to her parents. Where her life consisted of working in a chemists, then grocery shopping, then cleaning/cooking for her parents, then finding that they've spent her wages in the pub. She eventually left and got a flat with one of her sisters. This just meant that her brothers/sisters would come knocking on their door in rags for food.

JWs called again. My mum continued to study. Her sister studied too. She was eventually baptized and managed to indoctrinate her sister and two brothers. She met my dad in her Kingdom Hall and her sister started dating my dads brother. They were married and thus started my family being JWs along with my cousins family. As i said earlier, we had very little to do with non JW family.

Looking at it now, it's clear to me that JW doctrine appealed to two people who'd been though difficult times and were made to look at "the world" with JW spectacles on. Cults do this, they reframe experiences and memories.

In the case of my mum, she really did have a rubbish childhood. The appeal of instant friends, a worldwide family, a purpose, being told what to do with your spare time etc was a breath of fresh air. This is why she'll never leave the JWs. To my mum, Watchtower is her parent. She's the kind of person that would not only drink the Kool-Aid but brew it up and hand out the cups.

In the case of my dad, he was actually a very talented carpenter. He came from a long line of carpenters (im actually the first male in my family for 200 years not to be a carpenter). Of course the borg used him for free refurbishments, elders would call on him for repairs or work (which he'd do for free), his sign language skills were used in the conventions. I remember watching him in Manchester City Football Stadium signing for a section of deaf people. I never seen him use sign language apart from conventions. He became a Ministerial Servant but didn't go any higher. For one thing, he never thought himself worthy of that, Watchtower had convinced him that he wasnt good enough. And also he was honest to a fault, which didnt do him any favors. There was an elder in our hall that was beating up his wife. The wife reported it but the body didnt believe her. My dad saw this elder punch his wife in the face, my dad reported him and again the body didnt believe it. As if by coincidence my dad was marked as spiritually weak after that. For the rest of his life he'd say that the org is ran by imperfect men, and it's "the closest thing to the truth there is". Something i would later say myself when i got older before i left.

Anyway, i'd be interested in reading yours.

22

Current JW Go Fund Me requests

by Listener in

this topic was discussed a few years ago and i thought i would have a look to see what is going on with go fund me's by jws.

i am astounded that there are a great deal more jws requesting money than there were a few years ago and even by pioneers.i've only looked in detail at a few jw go fund me requests but came across this one that i am stunned about on a number of levels.. my little maryhello friends.

meet my wonderful girlfriend mary, a 23 year old "need greater pioneer"serving in the english field in san marcos nicaragua.

pale.emperor

I wonder if they'd need a Go Fund Me page if Tony Morris needed his spleen removed?

21

The WatchTower conductor lied on stage

by Isambard Crater in

on sunday morning in the watchtower study, a "study" who was their for the 1st time put his hand up and said; "i have a question.

when the paragraph says give up everything, it doesn't really mean give up everything like the pearl merchant, does it, like be willing to lose my modest house, cheap car and other basics i own?

i mean, that sounds a bit much".. the watchtower conductor said in response; "no, it's just a parable and it doesn't mean give up everything.

pale.emperor

Watchtower June 2017 Study Edition. Page 10:

4. If we love God’s Kingdom as much as the merchant loved the pearl, what will we do?
4 What is the lesson for us? The truth of God’s Kingdom is like that priceless pearl. If we love it as much as the merchant loved that pearl, we will be willing to give up everything in order to become and to remain one of the subjects of the Kingdom. (Read Mark 10:28-30.) Consider two individuals who did just that.

This paragraph could be taken as meaning giving up everything thats non JW approved or sanctioned by the society. College, personal interests not related to Watchtower etc. And many JWs will have come to this conclusion in their heads no matter if the person on the platform confirms it or not. My bet is, this paragraph will be dug up some time in the future to remind us that JW.borg is more important than anything you may want (you selfish piece of dust you).

29

What would happen to a JW who respectfully refused to fill out a no blood DPA?

by Island Man in

i know you'll be involuntarily disassociated if you unrepentantly accepted a blood transfusion; and i know you'll be disfellowshipped for apostasy if you openly disagreed with watchtower teaching.

what if you have done none of the above but simply respectfully refused to fill out the dpa without giving any reason for your refusal - so they can't accuse you of openly disagreeing with the no-blood doctrine and df you for apostasy.

they don't know why you're refusing and you're not giving them the reason - and you're being very respectful.. what can they do?.

pale.emperor

I dont know if they could do anything actually. You have the right to not talk about your medical care.

I personally didnt fill one out for the last 3 years and no one asked me. So as long as you dont openly mention it you'll probably get away with it.

If pressed, i'd just say "i've made my own arrangements with my Dr regarding my medical care". If they push the issue i'd ask them to respect my privacy and if necessary get the police involved if they keep pushing.

15

Is it alright for a Disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witness to Date?

by preacherman in

it is said that a dfed is handed over to satan and left alone in his or her gross unrepentant conduct.

however, you'll agree with me that not all dfeds are living that way.

the truth is that some have actually repented and stopped their bad conducts but have fallen victim to the legalistic and procedural expediences of the wbts which makes it very difficult for some to come back in the shortest period of time.

pale.emperor

He/she should do whatever they wish, but why would you limit yourself to looking for a partner who shares your superstitions? How about dating a rational person?

Love this!

15

Is it alright for a Disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witness to Date?

by preacherman in

it is said that a dfed is handed over to satan and left alone in his or her gross unrepentant conduct.

however, you'll agree with me that not all dfeds are living that way.

the truth is that some have actually repented and stopped their bad conducts but have fallen victim to the legalistic and procedural expediences of the wbts which makes it very difficult for some to come back in the shortest period of time.

pale.emperor

...which church can you recommend to such a one for finding decent marriage partners?

There are good people inside and outside of churches. Your idea of what is "decent" is subjective and relative. There is no one universal thing that everyone would find desirable in a partner.

But to answer your first question, i wouldnt even bother playing the reinstatement game unless of course you honestly think the Watchtower society has "the truth™". But if you do think that then you need to read JWFacts.com.

Live your life on your terms and you'll find yourself in a happier place.

36

Why the vitriolic hate?

by stuckinarut2 in

i am sure we have all thought of this before, but it struck me again today:.

why does the society promote such vitriolic hate toward, and about those who have left "the truth" ?.

surely it is obvious that such critical attitudes towards ones like us who have left, only serves to proove that they do not have "the truth"?.

pale.emperor

I was researching the subject of "self esteem" for a paper im working on. The Wikipedia article is very enlightening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem

Give it a read if you have the time. In a nutshell, people with a healthy self esteem display the following characteristics... all of which is abhorrent to Watchtower:

Firmly believe in certain values and principles, and are ready to defend them even when finding opposition, feeling secure enough to modify them in light of experience.[13]
Are able to act according to what they think to be the best choice, trusting their own judgment, and not feeling guilty when others do not like their choice.[13]
Do not lose time worrying excessively about what happened in the past, nor about what could happen in the future. They learn from the past and plan for the future, but live in the present intensely.[13]
Fully trust in their capacity to solve problems, not hesitating after failures and difficulties. They ask others for help when they need it.[13]
Consider themselves equal in dignity to others, rather than inferior or superior, while accepting differences in certain talents, personal prestige or financial standing.[13]
Understand how they are an interesting and valuable person for others, at least for those with whom they have a friendship.[13]
Resist manipulation, collaborate with others only if it seems appropriate and convenient.[13]
Admit and accept different internal feelings and drives, either positive or negative, revealing those drives to others only when they choose.[13]
Are able to enjoy a great variety of activities.[13]
Are sensitive to feelings and needs of others; respect generally accepted social rules, and claim no right or desire to prosper at others' expense.[13]
Can work toward finding solutions and voice discontent without belittling themselves or others when challenges arise.[47]

29

The most absurd reason have you heard someone disfellowshipped for ?

by Chook in

someone said on forum they knew someone df for not going to assigned meeting in old days .

pale.emperor

Two girls in the congregation i grew up in were DFd for going to a nightclub... twice. They got them on "brazen conduct" - a free for all meaning "you ignored our advice". They then classed them as unrepentant because they went twice.

Both have not returned and this was 20 years ago.

36

Why the vitriolic hate?

by stuckinarut2 in

i am sure we have all thought of this before, but it struck me again today:.

why does the society promote such vitriolic hate toward, and about those who have left "the truth" ?.

surely it is obvious that such critical attitudes towards ones like us who have left, only serves to proove that they do not have "the truth"?.

pale.emperor

I knew of two local apostates before I left (but I had never met them), one was called "a liar", the other "self-centred". But still I wondered if I were ever to leave, would the local JWs come up with a fair and loving "label" about me? Surely such loving people would! I was wrong. I soon heard from still-in friends that I had been labelled "mental".

If it's any consolation, my labels are "womanizer", "headstrong" and "proud"... but to be fair i am all of those things. And loving every minute of it.