lastmanstanding

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Posts by lastmanstanding

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  49

  The rise and rise of Paul Gillies?

  by JWB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the rise and rise of paul gillies?.

  here are a view details about the 57-year-old paul stuart gillies.. .

  2011: appointed as a director of international bible students association (ibsa) on 2 november having resigned as a director of watch tower bible and tract society of britain on the same day.

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  lastmanstanding

  He ought to, he’s a qualified lying sack of manure like the others.
• 
  49

  The rise and rise of Paul Gillies?

  by JWB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the rise and rise of paul gillies?.

  here are a view details about the 57-year-old paul stuart gillies.. .

  2011: appointed as a director of international bible students association (ibsa) on 2 november having resigned as a director of watch tower bible and tract society of britain on the same day.

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  lastmanstanding

  Paul is a hellava helper. He helped lots back during the UN affair.

  The following is a record of the published email correspondence between Stephen Bates (religion writer for The Guardian UK) and Paul Gillies (spokesman for The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Great Britian)

  Letter (email) from Paul Gillies to The Guardian (see original) (request to publish in The Guardian)

  Letters Editor

  The Guardian

  e-mail: [email protected]

  Dear Sir,

  October 22, 2001

  Stephen Bates' articles in The Guardian of October 8 and 15 substantially misrepresents the background to Jehovah's Witnesses registration with the United Nations and contains a number of factual errors.

  In 1991 one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations as a NGO (non-governmental organization) for the sole purpose of getting access to the extensive library of the United Nations. This enabled a writer who received an identification card, to enter their library for research purposes and to obtain information that has been used in writing articles in our journals about the United Nations. There was nothing secret about it.

  At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form. Years later, unbeknown to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the United Nations published "Criteria for Association", stipulating that affiliated NGO's are required to support the goals of the United Nations.

  After learning of the situation, our membership as NGO was withdrawn and the ID card of the writer was returned.

  Sincerely, Paul Gillies

  Press Officer for Jehovah's Witnesses in Britain

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies 1

  Reply (email) from Stephen Bates to Paul Gillies (official letter)

  Subject: from Stephen Bates, the Guardian From: [email protected] Addr: [email protected] Sent: Mon 22/10/01 at 15:25:41

  Dear Mr Gillies,

  I have just been shown your letter, submitted for publication two weeks after my initial article appeared in the Guardian.

  I would be very grateful if you would allow me to circulate it to the thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses who have contacted me since the articles appeared because, if there was nothing secret about your association with the Scarlet-Colored Beast, I am surprised that so many followers did not know of it, given the WTBTS's frequent condemnation of the UN in its publications.

  This may account for the witnesses' feelings of betrayal and sense of hypocrisy over the whole affair. If it was not secret and was only done to obtain a library ticket, why did you not tell me when I spoke to you several days before the article appeared? Surely you would have known it or could have found out very easily - most press officers are able to do so.

  And why did the WTBTS decide to disaffiliate only two days after the article appeared, when the WTBTS "learned about a situation" which was anyway not secret? Any organisation which affiliates to another surely must know that it has to ascribe to its basic principles, so to pretend that acceptance of the UN charter's aims has been suddenly sprung on you is being disingenuous at best.

  As far as I can tell from your letter there are no factual inaccuracies in my reports for you have not pointed to any that you did not have the opportunity to explain to me when we

  spoke. I don't think the letter will be published. But then what would I know - I'm only bird seed in your demonology!

  Best wishes, Stephen Bates

  Paul Gillies responds to Stephen Bates comments on official letter.

  From "Paul Gillies" < [email protected]> Date> 25/10/2001

  Time>05:56:19 pm

  To: Stephen Bates/Guardian/GNL@GNL Subject: FW: from Stephen Bates, the Guardian

  Dear Mr. Bates,

  My apologies for the delay in responding to your letter as I am at present out of the

  country and relying on my email being forwarded. You stated in your second article on 15 October that thousands around the world had read your previous article within hours of publication. Obviously then, the best way to communicate my response is to publish my letter in The Guardian.

  I have supplied you with an honest answer, but I am sorry that you do not agree with it.

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies 2

  I do not give you permission to circulate my letter. Rather, if my letter is published the thousands who have written to you may judge its veracity for themselves.

  sincerely, Paul Gillies

  Final reply to Paul Gillies by Stephen Bates

  -----Original Message-----

  From: Forward Mail [mailto: [email protected]]

  Sent: 22 October 2001 07:26

  To: ' [email protected]'

  Subject: from Stephen Bates, the Guardian

  ---------------------- Forwarded by Stephen Bates/Guardian/GNL on 25/10/2001 11:02 am ---------- Stephen Bates

  25/10/2001 11:01 am

  To: "Paul Gillies" < [email protected]> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr Gillies

  Thank you for your response. The Guardian will not publish your letter because it appears to us to be untruthful, or possibly part of your sect's ludicrously-entitled "theocratic war strategy".

  As you must know if you have troubled to check the matter out, what you described as a library pass was in fact accreditation as an NGO to obtain access to the United Nations - that is what the WTBTS secured in 1992, after applying in 1991. If you have been informed otherwise by the WTBTS you have been misled and I expect you will want to make inquiries to discover why.

  In accordance with resolutions 1247 and 1248 of the United Nations, passed in 1968, some 23 years before the WTBTS applied, accredited organisations are required to subscribe to the aims and ideals of the UN charter, so this was not changed during the course of the WTBTS's membership as you erroneously stated.

  Furthermore, the accreditation was required to be renewed annually during the WTBTS's association, so it is inconceivable that your people in New York were not aware of what they were signing up to each year. To obtain re-accreditation someone at the WTBTS must have signed an application form each year and I would be grateful if you could let me know who that was. It appears that whoever did so may not have been informing the rest of the organisation what was going on, in applying to associate with what your literature with astonishing hyperbole described in 1997 as "a disgusting thing."

  In addition, your letter appears to be at a certain amount of variance with what your Portuguese colleague told a newspaper there, when a journalist followed up the story, that the NGO status was applied for to assist the WTBTS's humanitarian aid work in the Third World. Was it to do this or to apply much more mundanely for access to the library?

  I am sure you will understand that until these issues can be answered, the Guardian is unable to publish your letter because it seems to us to be misleading and not factually correct, indeed possibly "designed to misdirect the enemy" as your strategy has it.

  I note that you have so far been unable to point to any factual inaccuracies in my stories or to deny the veracity of the highly damaging statements from WTBTS publications that I quoted. I note en passant that you did not dissent from my reference to myself as bird seed and I can state that, contrary to the apparent assertions of some of your more ill-informed elders, I am neither an apostate nor an agent of the devil.

  You will however be reassured to note, I am sure, that, since my articles were widely read

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies 3

  on Jehovah's Witnesses' websites and message boards across the world, most of whose correspondents could not hope to see the copies of the Guardian newspaper in which they originally appeared, I have published your previous letter and my response to it, and will also publish this one, there.

  This is to enable witnesses and former witnesses - those most affected by and interested in the stories and best able to understand them - to assess their veracity and the caliber of your response. I must say that many hundreds of them in several countries including the US doubt your version of events. If your original letter was not intended for publication, I am not quite sure why you wrote it.

  Perhaps you might also like to explain the truly distasteful images of Armageddon, including the destruction of skyscrapers, that appear in Jehovah's Witnesses' literature, which would appear to undermine any public expressions of sympathy by the WTBTS over the events of 11 September.

  Yours sincerely, Stephen Bates

  (Note From hawk - Steve Bates & I noted he made a minor error but it was too late. He used Resolutions 1247 and 1248. He meant to say Resolutions 1296 and 1297 passed by ECOSOC Council in the UN in 1968.)

  Notes: What Paul Gillies didn't know, during this attempt to deceive both The Guardian and its readership, was that Stephen Bates was apparently receiving truthful information from other sources. Mr. Bates was doing research, contacting the United Nations and gathering facts and documentation from the U.N. -and also information from Watchtower publications, hence Mr. Bates comments about "theocratic warfare" and "birdseed".

  Stephen Bates had copies of official United Nations material, proving that what Mr. Gillies wrote in his official letter, was a fabrication. Mr. Gillies tried, unsuccessfully, to play down the Watchtower's connection with the U.N., relegating it to nothing more than a "library pass". But Mr. Bates knew from the UN documents in his possession that to be a registered "Non Governmental Organization" meant affiliation with the UN and acceptance of the UN charter, with all that goes with it, including the "signature" which Mr. Gillies lied about.

  Mr. Bates knew that the statement of Mr. Gillies that "no signature was required on the form" was a lie, as a signature was absolutely required, and not just in 1991 when the Watchtower first applied. In fact, the Watchtower's officer filled out and signed a form every year for ten years, and each time he had to give a signature.

  Mr. Gillies also asserted that things had changed "unbeknown to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses". He tried to deceive Mr. Bates and the editor of the Guardian into believing and publishing that "Years later, unbeknown to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the United Nations published "Criteria for Association", stipulating that affiliated NGO's are required to support the

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies 4

  goals of the United Nations."

  Mr. Bates saw this for what it was, -a bold lie. He knew that the UN published its "Criteria for Association" in 1968, over 30 years ago by means of Resolutions 1296 and 1297 passed by ECOSOC council in 1968.)

  Nothing had changed, and Mr. Gillies knew it.

  After the last email exchange between Mr. Gillies and Mr. Bates, of October 25, 2001, the WTS made no further attempts to get the Guardian to print their fabricated story.

  Email exchange analyzed:

  Mr. Gillies attemped several different avenues at damage control. The first was to minimize the WTS involvement. Firstly, he stated "one of our legal corporations registered with the United Nations", thus relegating the deficiency to only "one" of the multitude of "organizations" at question. Here he attempted to place the problem among only a minority area of the WTS, as if one of many organizations was 'lost in the shuffle' as it were. The trouble with this subtle mechanism is that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is not just any "one" organization. Rather it is "the" organization itself, the mother organization.

  The second mechanism of deceit implemented by Mr. Gillies, was when he wrote that the affiliation was initiated for the "sole purpose of getting access to the extensive library of the United Nations". Here Mr. Gillies again attempted to play down the WTS's affiliation, yet this falsity was easily debunked by research through the UN. Although access to the UN library was granted to representatives from registered NGO's, anyone may access the UN library resources in a variety of ways, including the WWW online. As well, the Watchtower's involvement was not limited to library browsing as Mr. Gilllies asserted. A search on the UN website for evidence of the Watchtower's activity at the United Nations reveals quite a number of areas where the Watchtower was involved to a greater degree than they claim. The WTS, for instance, had sent representatives to make appeals at conferences where representatives from many other religions participated on an equal footing. This in itself shows Mr. Gillies words to be a deception.

  The third manufactured fabrication by Mr. Gillies was this statement concerning the Watchtower Society's UN affiliation. He wrote... "There was nothing secret about it." This statement needs no explanation, for anyone reading of this affair knows quite well where the truth is here. Did the reader know? Does the reader know anyone who was aware of it? Is there even one word about this affair in any Watchtower publication from the last ten years?

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies 5

  By way of making the WTS's UN affiliation appear to be almost accidental, Mr. Gillies again, attempting to minimize the affair, then went on to write "At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form." This falsehood is easily debunked. UN materials show that it has always been necessary for an agent of the organization to sign a form in application for accreditation as an NGO. Also, the Watchtower's representatives needed to renew this unholy alliance yearly, and on the renewal form, a signature is most definitely required. Keeping in mind that the Watchtower was associated with the UN for ten years, this lie is likewise multiplied times ten!

  The biggest lie of course, is this one. "Years later, unbeknown to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, the United Nations published "Criteria for Association", stipulating that affiliated NGO's are required to support the goals of the United Nations.

  The United Nations has made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that resolutions 1296 and 1297, passed by ECOSOC council in the UN, chiseled these in stone in 1968. Were the Watchtower representatives aware of the "criteria" in the "Criteria for Association"? One of the requirements was that the Watchtower submit, each year, six pieces of their literature showing United Nations support. Not only did the Watchtower print favorable articles on the United Nations, the United Nations has responded with photocopies of the articles that the Watchtower supplied.

  Yes, the WTS, contrary to Paul Gillies lies, was quite aware of "Criteria for Association" and were meeting them by printing Awake articles favorable to UN objectives, and further, were submitting them to the UN as per the requirements which they were more than aware of. No, Mr. Gillies, the WTS's association was no accident "unbeknown to the Governing Body"!

  Published email correspondence between Stephen Bates and Paul Gillies

  
  
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  1

  Shifting tides

  by lastmanstanding in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  sexual abuse never permissible.

  assuming that the montana supreme court’s recent opinion in the jehovah’s witnesses case (nunez v. watchtower bible, 2020 mt 3) sets forth the state of the law, then the law needs to be changed.. .

  first, no person should be allowed to sexually or physically abuse another person — minor or adult — and be protected from the consequences of that heinous act by a shape-shifting religious rule, protocol or doctrine.

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  lastmanstanding

  • Sexual abuse never permissible
    

  Assuming that the Montana Supreme Court’s recent opinion in the Jehovah’s Witnesses case (Nunez v. Watchtower Bible, 2020 MT 3) sets forth the state of the law, then the law needs to be changed.

  First, no person should be allowed to sexually or physically abuse another person — minor or adult — and be protected from the consequences of that heinous act by a shape-shifting religious rule, protocol or doctrine. Freedom of Religion, guaranteed under the First Amendment does not protect criminal conduct whether perpetrated by a deity’s ministers or by anyone else.

  Secondly, the perpetrators and facilitators of such conduct must be held accountable to the criminal laws. That means simply that perpetrators must be timely reported and criminally prosecuted. And just as important, those who facilitate or cover-up the perpetrator’s criminal conduct—no matter how high up in church hierarchy--must also be held accountable under the criminal law for aiding and abetting the perpetrator.

  This country and our state have witnessed far too many instances of sexual assaults by religious ministers, (not to mention trusted adults in athletics, scouting organizations, and other institutions). Sexual predators and facilitators must not get a pass, because they claim to be following their religious doctrines, protocols or beliefs.

  It is long overdue that our legislators remedy this situation, and it is long overdue that voters demand that they do.

  
  

  Jim Nelson

  retired Montana Supreme Court justice

  
  

  
  

  
  

  https://billingsgazette.com/opinion/letters/sexual-abuse-never-permissible/article_26547de5-1ed8-58ac-9cfa-8ff062335c14.html
  
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  27

  German businessman registers "Watchtower" and "Awake!" trademarks, expects offer from JWs

  by processor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  seriously.. https://www.wuv.de/marketing/unternehmer_sichert_sich_marken_der_jehovas.

  businessman felt harassed by jws, so he found that word marks "der wachtturm" and "erwachet!

  " (german versions of "the watchtower" and "awake!

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  lastmanstanding

  Interestingly, Germany does not participate in the International Patent Treaty. So, if the businessman were to have been able to defend his position at all, it would have stayed in Germany and gone no farther. Unless of course he was willing to pony up the cash and go international. Get your passport and chequebook.

  I can’t read the articles, but “48” basically says that the businessman volunteered to abandon it to Watchtology. I would wonder the circumstances, as the “beef” would not have been with the businessman but rather with the German patent and trademark office.

  If it’s felt that the trademark was not registered in good faith, ie the Watchtology position, then they would have to challenge the German office in court. The Watchtology position would be that the a German office was the crimer, not the businessman.

  It takes bucks to defend your position, and when you patent something or register a trademark, you have to police it yourself and take legal action to enforce your position...., yourself. You have to continually look for infringement and take the appropriate action through the courts. Nobody does this for you.

  So, Watchtology cannot sue businessman. Watchtology could only challenge the German office. If their challenge failed and the registration held, then it still takes businessman to sue Watchtology.

  And we all know that Watchtology will spend every donated Kingdom dollar on Satan’s Lawyers and then beg for more money to do it still longer in front of stupid judges in stupid courts.
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  30

  Montana News

  by AuntBee in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/montana/articles/2020-01-08/court-reverses-35m-verdict-against-jehovahs-witnesses.

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  lastmanstanding

  When you consider the fools in power in the government, are we surprised there are fools in the judiciary?
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  10

  Churches criticized for accepting donations via credit card- W75 11/1

  by krismalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the phrase “pray now, pay later” appeared in a headline of the philadelphia “inquirer” in reporting on a church experiment due to go into effect shortly.

  a group of ten u.s. religions, including some major lutheran, episcopal, methodist and baptist denominations, have decided to try church collections by credit card.w75 11/1 p. 651 - the watchtower—1975.

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  lastmanstanding

  Insight on the News

  “Pray Now, Pay Later”

  ● The phrase “pray now, pay later” appeared in a headline of the Philadelphia “Inquirer” in reporting on a church experiment due to go into effect shortly. A group of ten U.S. religions, including some major Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist and Baptist denominations, have decided to try church collections by credit card. The experiment, sponsored by the National Council of Churches, will encourage participating church members to authorize credit-card transfers of a specified contribution to their church each month. The idea, a Council spokesman says, is that “this will provide the local church with regular income whether or not the local congregation is in attendance,” especially in “off-seasons,” like summer vacation time. The report on the experiment says that those joining the program will be “giving unto business what belongs to business​—a profit.” How so? “Participating banks will charge 65 cents a transaction, and the credit card companies will rake off 3 percent of every donation.” Obviously someone benefits, but how much spiritual benefit is the modern churchgoer getting?
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  10

  Churches criticized for accepting donations via credit card- W75 11/1

  by krismalone in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the phrase “pray now, pay later” appeared in a headline of the philadelphia “inquirer” in reporting on a church experiment due to go into effect shortly.

  a group of ten u.s. religions, including some major lutheran, episcopal, methodist and baptist denominations, have decided to try church collections by credit card.w75 11/1 p. 651 - the watchtower—1975.

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  lastmanstanding

  w71 8/15 p. 505
  

  Certain clergymen in the New York area are very businesslike about the matter. They send out monthly statements to their parishioners reminding them of the amount they owe their church. And one Congregational preacher in Vermont was reported in the press as having installed a credit-card machine inside the front door for those who would prefer to contribute by this means. Ever so many churches either require or encourage their members to tithe, that is, to give to their church a tenth of their income.
  
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  25

  What was the retirement plans you heard brothers talk about if any

  by JimmyYoung in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know some would not think about retirement.

  i had one brother who would pioneer as he could afford and when he paid off his home he was about to collect social security.

  he made enough that his plan was to work two to three days a week and pioneer the rest of the week.

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  lastmanstanding

  Re: iwantoutnow

  5 hours ago

  I saved almost nothing...
  And I spent my life as an UBER JW.

  I am 100% totally !

  iwant, I can empathize. I have a PIMi friend with two kids pushing on to college soon. You sound like him, only he’s still flagellating himself with the watchtower stick.

  I have tried to drop hints to him, to make him think. I don’t think it helped.

  I don’t have advice for you. Only a prayer.
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  25

  What was the retirement plans you heard brothers talk about if any

  by JimmyYoung in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know some would not think about retirement.

  i had one brother who would pioneer as he could afford and when he paid off his home he was about to collect social security.

  he made enough that his plan was to work two to three days a week and pioneer the rest of the week.

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  lastmanstanding

  At the same time that I was meeting and married my wife 30 years ago, I was waking up. I had been sending letters to Brooklyn, questioning doctrine, and through the process I eventually realized WTBTS was all balogna.

  I was taught, through my upbringing and the example of my dad, financial prudence. He was a union tradesman. So was his father, my grand dad. So, I always had in my mind a full time job with benefits, regardless of WT BS.

  I did secure my trade, and a union job, same one my dad and gran dad had. And my wife eventually opened her eyes. We have a few houses, a fat bank account thanks to not putting a single penny in the contribution box for the last three decades, and a defined benefit (dinosaur) pension, last of its kind.

  I helped my wife get some fine education, better late than never, and she has work history, and some pension coming to her also.

  My kid went to the U. Got a good ticket, and a high paying job.

  We did ok.

  ... still pimo, but ok.

  Actually, I am more a scab than pimo. (So Called Apostate Brother) as I have been active against the Borg from within.

  BUT.. it’s not all so peachy for the others of my demographic. The top dog, for example, on our ‘body’ is at a crossroads. He saved next to nothing, he’s old and still working (gasp) as he and Mrs COBE can’t retire. He’s a good example of what I call ‘life implosion’.

  I have learned, over the years, that when the dollars stop making sense, things begin to happen. That’s where the buck stops. And the buck is about to stop big time.

  For those of you who follow the financial markets, you already know what I am going to say. One poster up the board touched on it.

  The US markets are in freaking LaLa land. The cherry on the top of that pile of dung is the repo markets. This is where 1929 and 2008 begins and ends. And the FED has the repo markets on life support and pain killers to the tune of billions per month. Else, the US banking system implodes, lending dries up, margins and mortgages get called.

  That my friends, is the proverbial shit hitting the fan. The markets, well they go pop as a consequence of credit dying. The world lives on credit.

  And that is where the buck will stop for not just the lowly dubs who haven’t two shekels to rub together. That is where Watchtology stumbles and falls.

  How far off, well there’s estimates, and lately, there’s been hedge funds putting their money where their mouth is. I cannot envision an avoidance of financial tumult beyond 2020. Fun fact, the US economy grew 2 percent during the last four quarters, but credit grew TEN percent during the same time.

  Its been all well and good for the dubs, they have been able to play their games, pioneering on a shoe string etc. through the last few decades, but the chickens are coming home to roost. Money is drying up fast.

  2020 will be an interesting year, for those who have a few drachmas.

  For those with an empty purse, not so much.
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  3

  Listen to old Rutherford talks

  by lastmanstanding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3a%22j.f.+rutherford%22&and%5b%5d=mediatype%3a%22audio%22.

  and much more.. if, for instance, you wan to find out more about what is in the book “studies in the scriptures” and you would like to search it, here is a sample search using the word “babylon”, https://archive.org/details/studies_in_the_scriptures_volume4/page/n193.

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  lastmanstanding

  https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22J.F.+Rutherford%22&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22audio%22
  

  And much more.

  If, for instance, you wan to find out more about what is in the book “Studies in the Scriptures” and you would like to search it, here is a sample search using the word “Babylon”, https://archive.org/details/studies_in_the_scriptures_volume4/page/n193