Posts by Perry

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

No, it's not conclusive, and I had addressed your concerns since the beginning. I will give it one more try to see if I understand the discussion.

Lanza’s theory of biocentrism has seven principles:

repeat

repeat ....

This is not even science.

Mad Giant, With all due respect you have not even attempted to explain the entangled particle experiment which clearly demonstrates that the OBSERVER ALONE generates the outcome of partical formation and not the measuring apparatus, let alone the time distortion characteristics. If you could explain it, you would immediately receive the nobel prize for saving naturalism.

The whole thing ie, you, me, the universe, our minds, God's mind is a giant set up designed for intellectual consumption. Just waving a magic wand and declaring, " This is not even science " DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE. It is science, get used to it. Consider:

Fine Tuning of the Physical Constants of the Universe

Parameter	Max. Deviation
Ratio of Electrons:Protons	1:10 37
Ratio of Electromagnetic Force:Gravity	1:10 40
Expansion Rate of Universe	1:10 55
Mass Density of Universe1	1:10 59
Cosmological Constant	1:10 120
These numbers represent the maximum deviation from the accepted values, that would either prevent the universe from existing now, not having matter, or be unsuitable for any form of life.

Degree of fine tuning

Recent Studies have confirmed the fine tuning of the cosmological constant (also known as "dark energy"). This cosmological constant is a force that increases with the increasing size of the universe. First hypothesized by Albert Einstein, the cosmological constant was rejected by him, because of lack of real world data. However, recent supernova 1A data demonstrated the existence of a cosmological constant that probably made up for the lack of light and dark matter in the universe. 2 However, the data was tentative, since there was some variability among observations. Recent cosmic microwave background (CMB) measurement not only demonstrate the existence of the cosmological constant, but the value of the constant. It turns out that the value of the cosmological constant exactly makes up for the lack of matter in the universe. 3

The degree of fine-tuning is difficult to imagine. Dr. Hugh Ross gives an example of the least fine-tuned of the above four examples in his book, The Creator and the Cosmos, which is reproduced here:

One part in 10 37 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 10 37 . (p. 115)

These are just a few examples. There are nearly 200 now confirmed.

Christians are just asking people to have another look. Would God go to all this trouble and not judge the moral creatures that he created all this for? There is judgment after death. There is also consciousness and eternity. Because Christians have experienced the habitation of the new spirit and Jesus Christ himself personally in their lives, they speak out, like I do. All useful knowledge doesn't come from just the governing body as most of us once believed, just as all useful knowledges doesn't come just from experiments as many of those same people have gravitated to now believing.

There is the mind of God to deal with after our own has reached its limits. And, he promises to judge his eternal creatures that he made in his image.

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

The fundamental problem with that is you've got no connective tissues, nothing binding it together, no evidence.

Well there certainly is no shortage of people accusing their opponents of not having enough connective tissues on this forum.

The "observer effect" you are referring to can be re-created with a measuring device

But it has been PROVEN that the measuring device is NOT involved in the collapse of a particle's wave function. Once this is demonstrated, the idea of "mind over matter" is further bolstered by even more precise experiments that will allow for only, say a 70% chance of knowing which slit the particle emerged from. The result? You guessed it - 30% wave pattern and 70% double band pattern. In other words, 70% knowing = 70% reality. Further, the fact that time is irrelevant and that the "knowing" is what produces the effects, even "after" the fact, demonstrates that if the mind is creating the results, then this apparatus exists at some level outside of "time" as we normally experience it. - Bye, bye Naturalism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfeoE1arF0I

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

Designs, neither you nor anyone else has addressed the “entangled particles” experiment I presented. If anyone is really interested in consciousness, they should at least study the test before they decide to dismiss the results.

It seems pretty conclusive.

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

We are in agreement. But, once we have received the fullness of Christ, and experienced the riches of his peace and wealth, there is a difference in rewards between those who choose to relax on Daddy's Yacht and those who choose to do some heavy lifting and don't mind getting dirty in the process.

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

The Bema seat judgment is not for judgment concerning slavation. That was forever taken care of at the cross. It is a judgment concerning rewards, responsibilities, etc. in his kingdom. Research it out.

Jesus made it clear in a number of parables that his servants are given varying amounts of "talents". They are rewarded on how wisely they invest what they have been given.

In Acts 10 Jesus wants everyone to know this:

And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living [ie. the believer] and the dead [ie. the unbeliever].

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

justgivemealittletime,

It is easy and tempting to extrapolate these findings into all kinds of metaphyical ideas, many of which are not biblical. There is plenty of that on the internet. The double slit experiments are just a very small window into the kind of universe that we actually live in. It confirms much of what the bible says.

But, I believe it also confirms other cliche's that float around as wisdom such as:

1. Mind over matter

2. when the student is ready, the teacher shall appear

3. You are what you think

etc., etc., etc.

I believe the main thing it confirms is the formative and creative power of faith/belief/observation. ("What are you seeing O son of man"?) I believe that when this spirit is directed/committed to God the father, through the blood of his Son (ALONE), then his creative mind meets us somewhere and an eternal connection is made that cannot be broken.

The scriptures are clear that the choices we make here on this earth, in this body, have eternal consequenses.

This particular judgment below, is ONLY for believers, their salvation is not on the table here. It is the BEMA seat judgment. Yet, believers are still judged.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Cor. 5:10

Believers are judged for things "done in his body" because the moment they fully trust in Jesus, they are given a new spirit that CANNOT sin. Only then are "you" beyond the reaches of judgment. When believers follow this new identity / principle, they do not sin. When they don't, they do.

What we do, and the choices we make always matter. Thankfully, faith in the blood of Jesus makes us legally righteous.

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

The only thing that matters is whether or not the photons are detected or interacted with in any way prior to or after passing through the slits.... This has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness. If it does how?

Mad Giant,

The experiments PROVE that not only is human observation and planning ALONE the determining factor, but also time and distance is irrelevant:

"But now let’s destroy our ability to measure the which-way paths of the s photons, but without interfering with them in any way. We can do this by placing a polarizing window in the path of the other photon P, far away. This plate will stop the second detector from registering coincidences. It’ll measure only some of the photons, and effectively scramble up the double-signals. Since a coincidence-counter is essential here in delivering information about the completion of the twins’ journeys, it has now been rendered thoroughly unreliable. The entire apparatus will now be uselessly unable to let us learn which slit individual photons take when they travel along path S because we won’t be able to compare them with their twins – since nothing registers unless the coincidence counter allows it to. And let’s be clear: We’ve left the QWPs in place for photon S. All we’ve done is to meddle with the p photon’s path in a way that removes our ability to use the coincidence counter to gain which-way knowledge. (The set-up, to review, delivers information to us, registers “hits,” only when polarity is measured at detector S AND the coincidence counter tells us that either a matching or non-matching polarity has been simultaneously registered by the twin photon at detector P). The result:

They’re waves again. The interference pattern is back. The physical places on the back screen where the photons or electrons taking path s hit have now changed. Yet we did nothing to these photons’ paths, from their creation at the crystal all the way to the final detector. We even left the QWPs in place. All we did was meddle with the twin photon far away so that it destroyed our ability to learn information. The only change was in our minds. How could photons taking path S possibly know that we put that other polarizer in place — somewhere else, far from their own paths? And QT tells us that we’d get this same result even if we placed the information-ruiner at the other end of the universe.

(Also, by the way, this proves that it wasn’t those QWP plates that were causing the photons to change from waves to particles, and to alter the impact points on the detector. We now get an interference pattern even with the QWPs in place. It’s our knowledge alone that the photons or electrons seem concerned about. This alone influences their actions.)

Okay, this is bizarre. Yet these results happen every time, without fail. They’re telling us that an observer determines physical behavior of “external” objects. Could it get any weirder? Hold on: Now we’ll try something even more radical – an experiment only first performed in 2002. Thus far the experiment involved erasing the which-way information by meddling with the path of p and then measuring its twin s. Perhaps some sort of communication takes place between photon p and s, letting s know what we will learn, and therefore giving it the green light to be a particle or a wave and either create or not create an interference pattern. Maybe when photon p meets the polarizer it sends s an IM (instant message) at infinite speed, so that photon s knows it must materialize into a real entity instantly, which has to be a particle since only particles can go through one slit or the other and not both. Result: No interference pattern.

To check out whether this is so, we’ll do one more thing. First we’ll stretch out the distance p photons have to take until they reach their detector, so it’ll take them more time to get there. This way, photons taking the S route will hit their own detectors first. But oddly enough, the results do not change! When we insert the QWPs to path S the fringes are gone; and when we insert the polarizing scrambler to path P and lose the coincidence-measuring ability that lets us determine which-way info for the S photons, the fringes return as before. But how can this be? Photons taking the S-path already finished their journeys. They either went through one or the other slit, or both. They either collapsed their “wave function” and became a particle or they didn’t. The game’s over, the action’s finished. They’ve each already hit the final barrier and were detected – before twin p encountered the polarizing scrambling device that would rob us of which-way information.

The photons somehow know whether or not we will gain the which-way information in the future. They decide not to collapse into particles before their distant twins even encounter our scrambler. (If we take away the P scrambler, the S photons suddenly revert to being particles, again before P’s photons reach their detector and activate the coincidence counter.) Somehow, photon s knows whether the “which-way” marker will be erased even though neither it, nor its twin, have yet encountered an erasing mechanism. It knows when its interference behavior can be present, when it can safely remain in its fuzzy both-slits ghost reality, because it apparently knows photon p — far off in the distance — is going to eventually hit the scrambler, and that this will ultimately prevent us from learning which way p went.

It doesn’t matter how we set up the experiment. Our mind and its knowledge or lack of it is the only thing that determines how these bits of light or matter behave."

.

So, since the facts show that the mind itself is creating the measurable reality .....I would argue that it is doing so in the image and likeness of its Creator. Our bodies obviously cannot exist outside of space / time confinements, but science is now showing that our minds/soul/spirit certainly does; just as our Creator does. And furthermore, the universe is designed for this very purpose at levels we are just now beginning to understand from a scientific point of view.

"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he"

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

the presence of the photon as it passes through the slit, has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness

Mad Giant,

Go ahead and tell us what the photon behavior does have to do with... if not consciousness. You can win the nobel prize right here.

You know more than these folks?

“… Robert Lanza’s work is a wake-up call to all of us”
—David Thompson, Astrophysicist, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center

You should enjoy this book, and it should help you on your personal journey to understanding.”
—Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy, Johns Hopkins University

This new theory is certain to revolutionize our concepts of the laws of nature for centuries to come.”—Anthony Atala, renowned scientist, W.H. Boyce Professor, Chair, and Director of the Institute for Regenerative Medicine, Wake Forest University School of Medicine

The scientific experiments show that consciousness must somehow exist outside of space & time, is part of the fabric of the universe, impacts reality and somehow does a little bit (or a lot) of creating along the way. This is consistent with a biblical point of view:

Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

129

Does consciousness end with the death of the body

by givemejustalittlemoretime in

apparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.

they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.

Perry

Did the universe give birth to mind? Or, does mind direct the universe?

How else are we to understand the implications of the two slit experiments?

See Robert Lanza's work

43

When You See A Witness What's Your Reaction?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it a feeling of---oh no!!?.

are you happy to see them?.

do you have a feeling of consternation?.

Perry

My heart goes out to them. I immediately wonder who their cousins, aunts and uncles might be that are praying for them. I do everything I can to try and talk to them most of the time.