You studied Theology from professors who didn't believe in God; did I read that right?
Posts by Perry
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30Hey There, so...what have I missed in the last couple of years?
by PSacramento inhi everyone,.
so...what have i missed in the last couple of years?.
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Wife got love bombed!
by lambsbottom inso i have been doing a 90 day fast from anything jw related.
getting close to 2 months in.
went to a baptist service this morning.
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Perry
Take your time. Look around. I go to a bible church. 200 members, traditional music, good teaching. Met an Iranian immigrant young woman there this morning at the service who has been recently attending a KH. Had a nice conversation. I explained how the Watchtower is similar to Islam in that you are dead to your family if you ever leave once you have joined. I explained how my 7 and 9 year old are shunned by my parents, brothers, and extended JW family despite never having even attended the KH.
I also explained how that Jesus is not the Mediator for rank and file JWs, and how that they also reject the New Covenant for "foregiveness of sins" despite Jesus having clearly said so in Mt. 26: 27, 28.
If that is what she wants .... she's free to do so as far as I'm concerned. However, after seeing the look on her face, I expect to see her at church again.
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Torah keepers,
by Mikado inhas anyone ever met any members of this group?.
i met a lovely lady who was telling me all about it.. apparently everything in the bible is literal, and it rather disconcerted me just how much i rememberd if it all.. everytime i asked do you mean that everything is literally true, apparently it is so..... she is a genuineky sincere, well meaning lady, and had a lovely time telling me all about it!.
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Perry
BOTR,
Thousands of people had faith in Christ Alone during his ministry and after he rose from the dead and presented himself to many. The bible isn't the object of faith for Christians, Jesus is ...... just as it was initially.
Since Pentecost, he presents himself to the believer in no less of a dramatic way now, than he did in the first century. This statement is based on my personal experience with him. Scripture confirms my experience to be identical as described in the bible.
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" - Hebrews 13:8
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Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre
by opusdei1972 inas we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.
17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.
19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.
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Perry
A clay tablet, now in the British Museum , bears the following inscription: "In the thirty-seventh year of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the country of Babylon, he went to Egypt [Misr] to make war. Amasis, king of Egypt, collected [his army], and marched and spread abroad."
Another Source:
forty years —answering to the forty years in which the Israelites, their former bondsmen, wandered in "the wilderness" (compare Note, see on Eze 29:5 ). Jerome remarks the number forty is one often connected with affliction and judgment. The rains of the flood in forty days brought destruction on the world. Moses, Elias, and the Saviour fasted forty days. The interval between Egypt's overthrow by Nebuchadnezzar and the deliverance by Cyrus, was about forty years. The ideal forty years' wilderness state of social and political degradation, rather than a literal non-passing of man or beast for that term, is mainly intended (so Eze 4:6 ; Isa 19:2 , 11 ).
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Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre
by opusdei1972 inas we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.
17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.
19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.
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Perry
Wikipedia says that Nebuchadnezzer did invade Egypt:
"Nebuchadnezzar then goes on to attack Egypt. After releasing Jeremiah from prison, the remaining Israelites apologized to Jeremiah but still do not listen to him when he tells them to stay in Jerusalem. They instead flee to Egypt, where the king takes them in even after Nebuchadnezzar has asked that they be returned. Nebuchadnezzar then conquers Egypt and moves further north in Africa before returning home with treasures and hoards of slaves."
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How to Avoid the Faithless Spirit of most here-
by DocHouse in1- pray to god (whomever you may imagine him to be) asking for understanding.
2- study the background about the bible (from non-religious sources) to see where it came from.
3- discard (or at least set aside) chuyrch claims and dogma.. 4- read it, looking up archaeological/historical sources about the places and peoples referred to.
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Perry
Faith is a way of avoiding reality.
After nearly 10 years of being lead by Jesus Christ ALONE, I can honestly state that faith has been a way of creating reality.
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Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre
by opusdei1972 inas we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.
17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.
19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.
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Perry
From the same article:
“You will never be rebuilt”
Literary Artistry of Ezekiel 26:3–14
The Hebrew poetry of this oracle is not static, but is progressive and climactic. The original ideas are gradually magnified, enlarged, and developed into a climactic crescendo. One must also take note of the technique of personification used in this passage. The oracle does not relate to Tyre merely as an inanimate conglomerate of building materials; Tyre is introduced as a person using pronouns like “I” and “me” in Ezekiel 26:2. At the end of the oracle (v. 14), God himself addressed Tyre as “you.” Throughout the oracle feminine singular pronouns like “your,” “her” and “she” are used of the city. Tyre is addressed with personal pronouns over 30 times in only 12 verses. This emphasis presents Tyre as a vibrant, prosperous, influential, living organism, rather than just a pile of stones.
The portrayal of Tyre becomes more and more personal as the oracle progresses. In verses 3 to 6, seven personal pronouns are used. In verses 12 and 13 there are 17 such pronouns. As the oracle continues, the allusions to destruction become more and more personal and “grass roots.” In the first ten verses towers, gates, walls and suburbs are the objects of destruction. In verses 11 to 14, people, wealth, houses, business profit, music and merchandise are focused upon. This culminates with God addressing her as a “you” in the phrase, “You will not be built anymore” (author’s translation).
If one considers the poetic progression, the statement that Tyre “will not be rebuilt” pertains to the final state of the city after the succession of waves has fully destroyed it. Also, if the elements in verses 12–14 are considered, the rebuilding would include personal, commercial and national features. The context of how Tyre was built when the oracle was written must also be considered. Its original builders made it “perfect in beauty” with the most extravagant, opulent trappings (Ez 27: 3, 4–11). She was an exquisite, richly adorned world ship in chapter 27. Any potential rebuilding would have to include all these features.
Use of the Hebrew Root bnh with Persons in the Old Testament
In defining the verb “build,” it is instructive to observe how it is used of feminine singular personifications. The best parallel for this is “Virgin Israel” in Jeremiah 31:4. Israel is also the collective personification of a nation. There is almost identical wording here as in 26:14 except for the “not.” God says, “I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel” (Jer 31:4). The rebuilding would include musical instruments, dancing and joyous celebration. According to verses 5 and 12, agricultural prosperity is also included. Verse 28 includes the rebuilding of waste places.
The following are some of the Biblical elements inherent in the word “build” when used with the building of a nation considered as a collective single person:
1. Flourishing population. Genesis 16:2, 30:3 and Ruth 4:11 use the verb for “build” as building up the House of Israel by her matriarchs.
2. National prominence and influence. Amos 9:14 speaks of rebuilding the fallen tent into some form of the old Davidic empire. Psalm 89:5 included the building of David’s throne. His dynasty is to be built in Samuel 7:11, 16, 27.
3. National Strength and Security. A righteous nation will be built and planted by God (Jer 18:9).
4. Prosperity. Both wicked and repentant may be built up (Mal 3:15; Job 22:23; Prv 24:3).
The statement that Tyre will never be rebuilt means more than the restructuring of stones, wood and mortar. Tyre will never regain international prominence as a world trader and colonizer. She will never be a rich, prosperous, flourishing, world power as she was in Ezekiel’s day. The denial of rebuilding goes far beyond a mere architectural project. It must include making Tyre into the person she was in the early sixth century BC. It must be kept in mind that the meaning is “you will never be rebuilt,” not “the city will never be rebuilt.”
The statement in 26:14 does not deny there would be buildings on the island. It means that Tyre would never be rebuilt into the commercial superpower she was in Ezekiel’s day. It means that the palaces and temples of Ezekiel’s day would forever lie deep underneath the ground (and the water!), never to be revived. It would in no way be rebuilt into the prosperous, powerful living entity she was at the time the oracle was given.
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Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre
by opusdei1972 inas we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.
17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.
19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.
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Perry
Were you aware that there were essentially two Tyres?
Tyre was originally an island “surrounded by the sea” (Ez 27:32). “Today, ” Aubet says, “Tyre is a peninsula joined to the mainland.” The peninsula was created by the silting up of a mole or causeway built by Alexander the Great in 332 BC (Aubet 1993: 27). Aubet notes that there was a city on the mainland known as “ancient Tyre” to Roman historians, also referred to as “Palaeo-Tyre.” The Egyptian and Assyrian texts call it Uzu/Ushu. The scribe in Papyrus Anastasi I (1290–1186 BC), for example, says,
What is Uzu like? They say another town is in the sea named Tyre-the-Port. Water is taken to it by boats (Wilson 1969: 477). Aubet adds:
It was considered to be a second Tyre on the mainland and lasted as a satellite city until it was conquered by Nebuchadnezzar (1993: 30, emphasis added).
Nineteenth-century map of Tyre, showing the present-day causeway between the mainland and the island city. When Alexander the Great besieged the island in 332 BC he built a narrow mole from the rubble of the destroyed mainland city of Tyre. It spanned the 1/3 mi (600 m) between the mainland and the island. In time, the causeway became enlarged by sand deposits washed in by the waves. Today the causeway and the island form a peninsula stretching out into the Mediterranean. Evidence of Tyre’s ancient ports can still be seen on the north and south sides of the former island.
After his defeat of Jerusalem in 587 BC, Nebuchadnezzar turned his attention to Tyre. Although he defeated mainland Tyre, a 13-year siege of the island city proved fruitless. The historian Diodorus attested that Alexander used the stones from the Old Tyre destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar to build his mole (Diodorus, 17.40; Wells 1936). The causeway was a half-mile (0.8 km) long and 200 ft (60 m) wide, and was built so Alexander could move his siege equipment over to the island. The rubble from Old Tyre was so thoroughly cleaned out by Alexander’s engineers that no trace of the ancient city can be found today. Thus, according to H. J. Katzenstein, the precise location of mainland Tyre is a point of controversy. According to this specialist on the history of Tyre, it was “totally dismantled by Alexander the Great in his famous siege…and disappeared totally” (1997: 15).
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How Did A Proven "Fake," "Phony" Arrangement ["governing body"] ...Become The "Faithful & Discreet Slave" Arrangement???
by Littleleslie inquestion:.
how did a proven "fake," "phony" arrangement [like "governing body" arrangement]...become the "faithful & discreet slave" arrangement???.
so then if it can be proven, the "governing body" term and arrangement is a farce, a fake, a made-up nonscriptural arrangement itself, (made up and concocted by nathan knorr & frederick franz in 1944) then how can this fake arrangement now suddenly become the "faithful & discreet slave" that jesus spoke of?
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Perry
Perry, is the Watchtower a Christian religion in your view or a cult following the rules of men? If a cult, does that mean they are doomed because they had the Bible to read but failed to show the qualities Jesus Christ said his followers would display?
BSB,
Not a cult for following the "rules of men", but a cult because of the reason why they do it. It is OK to follow the rules of men if you want to, for your own various resaons to suit you. That is biblical Christian Freedom. It is NOT OK to follow rules of men for Salvation from judgment. That is idolatry. Your reasons are everything to God and reveal the nature or quality of your faith.
However, on your second question: Jehovah's Witnesses aren't doomed because they failed to show Christ's qualities. They are doomed because they fail to have faith in Christ Alone; which failure nullifies the contractural obligation of God to pay the sin debt on your behalf through the blood of his only Son. Personal efforts at righteousness are offensive to God, and only serve to pile up more debt for a person on Judgment Day.
Romans 4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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Torah keepers,
by Mikado inhas anyone ever met any members of this group?.
i met a lovely lady who was telling me all about it.. apparently everything in the bible is literal, and it rather disconcerted me just how much i rememberd if it all.. everytime i asked do you mean that everything is literally true, apparently it is so..... she is a genuineky sincere, well meaning lady, and had a lovely time telling me all about it!.
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Perry
Mikado,
Here are two websites that I have found to answer much of pop-cultures' criticism of God and the bible.
The bible will never make sense unless a few things are established:
1. We are born enemies of God, in a state of condemnation (John 3:18), being children of Adam
2. God owes his enemies nothing (except judgment). He is not in our debt, but we are in his the moment we are born. Our good works create more debt, not leniency. (Romans 4:4)
3. God has chosen to deal with the problem of evil, not by the immediate elimination of it - but through the agency of Judgment (either your own judgement, or vicarious judgment through faith ....ultimately in Jesus' substitutionary death in your place)
