i know of one person who had a difficult life, prayed for help, got the knock at the door, got baptized and eventually left the jws believing they were a cult.. has this happened to any of you?
and if so, did you still feel your prayers were answered at that time?.
Left the JW's at age 12 or 13 mentally. By age 23 I was done with living without God in my life and prayed and prayed. I joined the JW's for 8 years then quit cold turkey. It never occurred to me to seek Jesus on my own.
I don't blame God for the years I wasted as a JW.
in a perfect world, one would hope that no woman would need to consider an abortion.
there is unfortunately, no perfect world and there does not seem there will ever be a perfect world.
so consider .... 1. a child rape case in paraguay.. ... but the plot unfolding in paraguay is so dark and twisted that it is currently tearing the south american country apart.it began on april 21 when a mother brought her 10-year-old daughter to a public hospital.
Here's another complication:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/15/church-blacklists-103-year-old-granny-then-calls-the-cops-on-her.htmlchurch blacklists 103-year-old granny, then calls the cops on her.
genora hamm biggs had been a member of the union grove baptist church for 92 yearsuntil a new pastor banished her and tried to have her arrested over a clash about the style of a sermon.. a 103-year-old georgia woman was banished from her church for a sin the pastor cant forgiveshe disagreed with how he preached.. genora hamm biggs has attended union grove baptist church in elberton since she was 11 years old.
but last month, rev.
a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
Ehrman's point is that there are thousands of differences between manuscripts for the NT. The vast bulk of those are minor, many just scribal errors. But some are quite significant.
Mephis,
The minority greek texts based on Sinaiticus and Vaticanus are indeed a mess. They disagree between each other 7000 times.
However, the majority text body of manuscripts enjoys near total agreement in over 5000 manuscripts. Many millions of Christians, including myself, do not accept the minority text as authoritative when it conflicts with the majority text.
Once I understood the differences, I realized that people like Ehrman have simply created a job for themselves. It is all much ado about nothing once you place the authority on the Majority Texts.
You can read more about this viewpoint here, on my website if you'd like.
for jw's the issue has never been who the faithful and wise servant (f&ds) was.
that is just misdirection and sleight of hand.
it is plain from the context that this was obviously a rhetorical question meant for self introspection.
Try and step out of the religious indoctrination for a moment and see that this is an illogical statement,
Xanhippe,
The idea of one person dying in exchange for many is perhaps the greatest story template written in every language and culture on this planet. It is the ultimate hero story, retold over and over in books, movies and campfire stories.
Blood can be a metaphor for a death payment. I think you are getting hung up on the substance and not considering the rule that God made - "the wages of sin is death". That is God's rule. One could restate God's rule to say the wages of sin is spilled blood. Means the same thing.
God defeated his enemy by providing a death payment with his own blood, for his own rule. It is accessible to "whosoever" as their personal payment.
Yes, God bleeds. Acts 20: 28 "feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" - KJV
The price of free will, choice, and morality, which unlike all the animals we alone have, being made in God's image, is the possibility and reality of spilled blood, conflict and death. This is the reality of our world.
It is not a world only of hot chocolate, expensive cars, and beach vacations. Lots of blood is spilled in our world, because of sin.
Watch this movie clip to see how wrong you are in criticizing God for doing what he did.
Here we have a judge and two men. Various Indian languages, French and English are spoken by the characters. Because Hawkeye can't speak French, but the English officer and the Chief can, he can't know that the offer of himself was translated wrong so that the English officer could sacrifice himself instead. Here two men are actually vying for the opportunity to pay the death price.
Sacrificing yourself for others freedom is the greatest act of love, the pinnacle of human goodness, and we got that capability from God.
I don't think the devil counted on this when he captured this species called humans through lies. Noble men and God himself know how to sacrifice one battle, in order to win the war.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
- Jesus of Nazareth
i was feeling particularly hopeless about the whole jws being assholes thing and sick to death of pretending so ....
i rang my sister and told her that i no longer believe jws have the truth and the phone went silent, when i asked her to say something she just said if that was the case then she would have to hang up on me and then proceeded to indeed hang up..
so i texted her back immediately with fu..
Sparrow Down,
I tried the fade thing for many years. I still had contact with family but it affected me psychologically in ways that were not healthy. My life went nowhere during this period.
Your honesty is refreshing to read about in a place where fading is pretty much the standard opinion that is offered.
As a new Christian, I exercised my Christian freedom and put up a Christmas tree before my parents came to visit one holiday season. I then asked them to show me where honoring Jesus' birthday was wrong when so many other bible characters did it. They just pretended the tree didn't even exist in my living room. I also asked my brother to show me where in the bible that active military duty was a disfellowshipping offence, especially when the very first example of a gentile believer in the bible was an active duty Roman military officer. In recent years I have challenged them to show me even ONE new testament scripture that shows how you can get your sins forgiven outside of the new covenant.
I was 40 years old at the time, divorced; my grown son wouldn't talk to me & had serious addiction issues and I drank too much. I put my faith in Jesus and utterly torched the Watchtower to the ground in front of my family. It was a rush for sure. But, then the task of walking with Jesus began.
Tens years later, I can say that Jesus is faithful, even when we are not at times. I remarried, have two more sons, 8 & 10 year boys who I baptized along with my grown son Spring of last year. My oldest is getting married in December to a young lady who works as an assistant to the pastoral staff at a church. She has had her own struggles coming to Christ. They seem perfect for each other. My oldest son and I are in a successful business together, although live in different cities.
God is good. The Watchtower thrives in darkness and secrecy. Like roaches, when you turn the lights on they run.
My advice is simple, torch the lying whore of a religion the Watchtower is down in front of your loved ones, and walk with Jesus. He'll take you places you've only dreamed about.
i stopped regulary attending meetings and going in field service in january.
the elders have left me alone for the most part i think because of my jw husband.
last week my parents came over and told me i needed to come back to meetings.
atacrossroads,
I'm sure your parents love you, they just love their idol more. That's why the elders want to know what your views on the GB are. All JW's worship the GB members as God, their final authority. However, JW's are also trained to say that the bible is their final authority. I have used this crack in their armor to get them to think.
You could do your family and friends a great service by asking them a simple bible question:
I have told my family something like this:
If you can show me one scripture that shows how I can get my sins forgiven while outside of the New Covenant, I'd be happy to return back to the Kingdom Hall.
Of course, no scriptures exist to show this. But, they honestly feel that they have all the answers to any possible religious question ever. If you can demonstrate their basic inadequacy in something a simple as forgiveness, not only will they leave you alone, they may actually do some research themselves.
Basically, just position yourself as a student and ask to be educated.
They will be quite surprised to find that they cannot find scriptural support for salvation without personally being a member of the blood covenant.
Here's a related recent thread.
Here's a talk I gave on how to talk to JW's with a demonstration at the end.
Hope this helps.
Praying for you.
my name is ji-seong lee and about jw life, it has been almost 11 years after baptism.. but researching about jw bad behavior, it was a real shock (including child abuse by elders).
but i think just keeping jw lifestyle is more comfortable than stopping it, because of my family.... i have mom, father, and one older sister, and my father was an elder (not now) and my sister is regular pioneer.. so it is just a challenge to quit my religion.. because i just love to make friends throughout the world, (nomatter what religion backgrond they have) i post this text and in the end of this you will find the kakaotalk id of me!!.
i am male and 1993 jan. born.
Welcome and greetings to South Korea!
So It is just a challenge to quit my religion.
I completely understand. I have dozens if not hundreds of relatives who are JW's.
a careful examination of the historical pagan religious context existing at the time of the genesis of christianity leads any reasonable person to conclude that jesus is just another one of several similar myths.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn7teoa9ark.
Blind Bart Erman has an axe to grind. He never got over someone trying to cure his dad of cancer by anointing him with a bottle of shampoo in a hotel room.
In describing his spiritual background, Ehrman describes an event that occurred when his father was dying of cancer. His charismatic youth group leader visited the hospital and “used a bottle of hotel shampoo to ‘anoint’ his father, and tried to persuade his father to confess specific sins” (“Former Fundamentalist ‘Debunks’ Bible,” CNN, May 15, 2009). Ehrman says he was angry at the man for acting “self-righteous” and “hypocritical.” This event, though, does not reflect negatively on a biblicist faith. It simply proves that this particular youth leader was a misguided man. The Bible does not instruct us to anoint people with shampoo.
He also makes silly statements of "fact".
For example, Blind Bart says that the belief in the Bible as infallibly inspired began in the 19th century.
“Church historians have traced the view, rather precisely, to the Niagara Conference on the Bible, in the 1870s, held over a number of years to foster belief in the Bible in opposition to liberal theologians who were accepting the results of historical scholarship. In 1878 the conference summarized the true faith in a series of fourteen statements. The very first one -- to be believed above all else -- was not belief in God, or in the death and resurrection of Jesus. It was belief in the Bible” (Ehrman, “Jesus Saves, Not the Bible,” newsweek.washingtonpost.com, May 1, 2009).In fact, the writers of the New Testament taught that the Scripture is infallible. Paul said, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). And Peter wrote, “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5znVUFHqO4Q
the watchtower has long denied the substitutionary sacrifice of jesus.. ot picture of nt salvation:.
on the night of deliverance from pharaoh, the sons of abraham were to slaughter a spotless lamb, eat its flesh and smear some of the blood over the doorway and on the door-posts of their home.
because they were under this blood arrangement and had the lamb inside of themselves after they ate the passover supper, the angel passed over that house as he delivered gods execution judgment.
thank you for explaining this Perry, I often had problems understanding this from a wtbts perspective.
Diogenisister, glad to help.
