Posts by Perry

Separation from God is torture since God is good and the Giver of every good gift. What exactly is the obsession with trying to make the punishment for sin more tolerable?

Imagine a cold dark existence for eternity. Imagine no heat, no touch, no smiles, no water, no one to hear your voice, for eons. This is likely a best-case scenario for those that don't want a pardon, and who seek to justify themselves. All completely unnecessary. God wills that he lavish his gifts upon us, in this life ....and the next .

108

If God is real?

by suavojr in

jw
friends

if after you die you find yourself in front a god ready to judge you.

what will you say in your defense for not believing?

.

Perry

Bohn:

Bottom line: You are in favor of eternal torture

Neither me nor God is in favor of such a thing. Eternity is simply part of our constitution. God says that you cannot will yourself to cease to exist at death. If this is true, then how to spend eternity takes on serious significance. At great cost to himself, God gave us options.

The real bottom line is this:

God can only 1.) make it impossible to sin, or 2.) he can judge sin. He cannot do nothing since that would make him evil, something contrary to his nature. I have not heard any other explantion offered for the problem of evil. Ever.

So, since we live in a world where evil and sin is indeed possible, then it is likely that he will judge sin......which is exactly what he says he'll do over and over in the bible.

We have a conscience. We sin with knowledge of it. Yet, God offers a pardon. God is good.

48

Abiogenesis takes another step forward.....

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

spark of life: metabolism appears in lab without cells19:42 25 april 2014 by linda geddesfor similar stories, visit the evolution and human evolution topic guidesmetabolic processes that underpin life on earth have arisen spontaneously outside of cells.

the serendipitous finding that metabolism the cascade of reactions in all cells that provides them with the raw materials they need to survive can happen in such simple conditions provides fresh insights into how the first life formed.

it also suggests that the complex processes needed for life may have surprisingly humble origins.. "people have said that these pathways look so complex they couldn't form by environmental chemistry alone," says markus ralser at the university of cambridge who supervised the research.. but his findings suggest that many of these reactions could have occurred spontaneously in earth's early oceans, catalysed by metal ions rather than the enzymes that drive them in cells today.. the origin of metabolism is a major gap in our understanding of theemergence of life.

Perry

And think too!

The origin of metabolism is a major gap in our understanding of the emergence of life. "If you look at many different organisms from around the world, this network of reactions always looks very similar, suggesting that it must have come into place very early on in evolution,

Or, it suggests a common designer.

Happy accident

One theory is that RNA was the first building block of life because it helps to produce the enzymes that could catalyse complex sequences of reactions.

The fact is:

Ribonucleic acid ( RNA ) is a ubiquitous family of large biological molecules that perform multiple vital roles in the coding , decoding , regulation , and expression of genes . Together with DNA , RNA comprises the nucleic acids , which, along with proteins , constitute the three major macromolecules essential for all known forms of life .

The author calls, RNA the "first building block of life". Since cells are now compared to the complexity of a city with hundreds of irreducible interdependent complex parts, that is like saying that the light company is one of the first building blocks of Chicago. Or, it is like saying that the city permit department with is scores of engineers and volumes of building codes constitute a basic building block of the City of Atlanta. Ridiculous. Where did all the information come from? Information does NOT self-generate. Information comes from a mind.

Another possibility is that metabolism came first; perhaps even generating the molecules needed to make RNA, and that cells later incorporated these processes – but there was little evidence to support this.

Ahh, how about ZERO evidence to support this.

This is not science folks. This is confirmation bias.

Evolution and especially ambiogenesis is a fairy tale for adults.

12

It about the money, counting and a few notes from our SAD

by Sour Grapes in

jw
friends

during the special memorial campain the congregation was told to count all of.

the invitations on their time report, which i think is something new.

thursday night.

Perry

We were told that too many friends are calling in for the meetings rather than attenting.

Well at least it might relieve the log jam at the bathrooms so many hangout in during the meetings.

48

Abiogenesis takes another step forward.....

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

spark of life: metabolism appears in lab without cells19:42 25 april 2014 by linda geddesfor similar stories, visit the evolution and human evolution topic guidesmetabolic processes that underpin life on earth have arisen spontaneously outside of cells.

the serendipitous finding that metabolism the cascade of reactions in all cells that provides them with the raw materials they need to survive can happen in such simple conditions provides fresh insights into how the first life formed.

it also suggests that the complex processes needed for life may have surprisingly humble origins.. "people have said that these pathways look so complex they couldn't form by environmental chemistry alone," says markus ralser at the university of cambridge who supervised the research.. but his findings suggest that many of these reactions could have occurred spontaneously in earth's early oceans, catalysed by metal ions rather than the enzymes that drive them in cells today.. the origin of metabolism is a major gap in our understanding of theemergence of life.

Perry

The difference between this and the function of a cell is mindboggling.

Mindboggling complexity - proteins

Even a single cell is not simple. In Darwin's day researchers looked at cells under the microscope and saw little balloons filled with goo they called protoplasm, so they thought cells were simple forms of life. 150 years later we know that there are many types of cells, and each cell is a little city at work. The smallest known genome (Mycoplasma genitalium) has 482 genes. 18 The minimum possible for an organism to survive is probably 200 to 300 genes. Most bacteria have 1000 to 4000 genes. A popular textbook on the cell 1 is 1600 pages long and weighs 7 pounds. Everything about the cell is stunningly complex. Plants and animals contain a great variety of cells. The human body has about 210 different types of cells.

Cells are made of proteins, and everything that goes on in a creature involves proteins intchemical reqeracting with each other. Proteins are generally 50 to 2000 amino acids long; a typical one has about 300 amino acids. 1 Ribosomes are molecular machines that build proteins in cells, using messenger RNA as the template. Here is an overview of how a bacterial ribosome "translates" RNA into protein. Every protein in bacteria is made this way.

From: Schmeing, T. Martin, V. Ramakrishnan. 29 October 2009. What recent ribosome structures have revealed about the mechanism of translation. Nature, Vol. 461, pp. 1234-1242.

A protein is not just a long ribbon of amino acids strung together from the DNA pattern. It folds itself into a 3D structure.

Diagram of a folded protein

Origami

The temperature and chemical concentrations must be right for it to fold correctly, and many proteins get help from special proteins called "molecular chaperones". Chaperones can keep proteins separated from each other while they are folding, prevent mistakes in folding, and even unfold mistakes to give the protein a second chance to get it right. After helping one protein fold, a chaperone will go help another one fold.

" A chaperone protein (bottom, yellow) called SecB guides the folding of another protein (transparent)
in this artist's illustration." --Science News, December 1, 2007, Vol. 172, p. 342

Making and folding proteins goes on continuously throughout the body. Misfolding can lead to more than proteins that don't work. In humans, bunches of them (aggregates) can lead to diseases such as Alzheimer's, Huntington's, or sickle cell. "Proteins are so precisely built that the change of even a few atoms in one amino acid can sometimes disrupt the structure of the whole molecule so severely that all function is lost." 1 All proteins stick (bind) to other molecules. But each can bind to only a few of the thousands it encounters. "An average protein in a human cell may interact with somewhere between 5 and 15 different partners." 1 Their shapes fit each other like a hand in a glove. "Proteins can form enormously sophisticated chemical devices." "The most impressive tasks are carried out by large protein assemblies formed from many protein molecules." "Each of the central processes in a cell... is catalyzed by a highly coordinated, linked set of 10 or more proteins." 1 The parts of a cell where proteins are made (ribosomes) are themselves made of many different proteins. "The complexity of living organisms is staggering." 1 In the face of this breathtaking complexity, evolutionists have tried to find the basic things necessary for a cell to function. So far they have found 17 general categories 1 :

Replication, recombination, and repair
Transcription
Cell cycle control, mitosis, and meiosis
Defense mechanisms
Cell wall/membrane biogenesis
Signal transduction mechanisms
Intracellular trafficking and secretion
Translation
Post-translational modification, protein turnover, chaperones
Energy production and conversion
Carbohydrate transport and metabolism
Amino acid transport and metabolism
Nucleotide transport and metabolism
Coenzyme transport and metabolism
Lipid transport and metabolism
Inorganic ion transport and metabolism
Secondary metabolite biosynthesis, transport, and catabolism

Each category requires many proteins. All have to be in place and working together or the cell is wrecked.

So evolutionists have to believe that for each protein, pure chance laid out long strings of amino acids that fold themselves into the exact shapes needed to interact with other specialized proteins and, where needed, get help from chaperone proteins which themselves appeared by chance. The necessary proteins cannot be invented one at a time. Either they are all there, ready to work together, or nothing happens and they disintegrate. Yet even if it could design proteins, mutation-natural selection would only work on one at a time sporadically over many years. Considering just the complexity of proteins, the notion of creating them with mutation-natural selection is as silly as asking someone to build a television set with a spoon and a toothbrush. If Darwin had known what we have learned about proteins, he probably would have abandoned the theory of evolution.

12

The WT and GB compared to Catholics before the reformation.

by EndofMysteries in

i just read this article about luther and i'll quote a paragraph.

it's interesting how you can substitute a few words and see it identical to the wt.

now let me substitute pope and catholic church for governing body and watchtower...... .

Perry

The Church taught that “it alone” was
God’s instrument and representative on Earth and salvation could only be found by its
means.

I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” ( John 14:6

Funny how heretics always seem to get themselves confused with the role of Jesus.

108

If God is real?

by suavojr in

jw
friends

if after you die you find yourself in front a god ready to judge you.

what will you say in your defense for not believing?

.

Perry

bohn says:

I am only glad a person who so willingly wish to believe in this sort of moral nihilism, totallitarianism and torture-porn is not in any capacity of power.

It doesn't matter whether you wish to believe in the judgment of sin or not, it is going to happen after we die whether we believe in it or not. Unlike animals, you have built within you a conscience which bothers you when you break some of God's laws.

We live in countries that assumes that when we steal, lie, assault, murder etc, we do it with the knowledge that it is wrong. We set up courts to judge those who break these laws...... because we are created in God's image, which is where we get this sense of justice. However, our justice systems are flawed, incomplete and knowingly not perfect.

God is not like that. He is perfect. He knows all. He knows we could NEVER obey all his laws on our own power. The Jews tried to do it and failed. They became addicted to trying to do it. They built a maladaptive relationship with the system instead of with God himself. When he showed up as their deliverer, most rejected him even though he made the blind see, the lame walk, and the dead rise.

Man, in his depravity isn't so much against a God who judges; it is against a God who judges us personally and exposes our weakness. This asaults our pride. However, God must judge sin, just as the judges that we appoint in our courts must do their job. But, he made his own Son to become sin in our place.... just so we would not have to be condemned.

If God judged you by the ten commandments would you be guilty or innocent? That is a question each of us should ask ourselves. Especially since God spent about three thousand years indicating that the ten commandments is how he will judge human beings who were created in his image.

23

The Fossil Record: vs God Allowing Pain & Suffering

by Shanagirl in

what a man does with the fossil record tells a lot about his worldview.

is it the result of a world-covering deluge?

or did this sorry chronicle of pain, suffering, and death precede humans (and the reign of death) by millions of years?

Perry

Evolution has fossils, DNA and can be recreated, observed, influenced in real time.

Snare,

Animals have fossils, not evolution. DNA can be recreated? Where, in a computer, your mind, your imagination? It certainly cannot be recreated in a laboratory. Scientists have never so much as even created a twig.

Here's an interesting list of not-so-old things.

Here's some "150 million year old" ink, .....uh, I mean "evolution fossil".

Funny how people never complain about the theory of gravity

Snare,

No one is compalining about the theory of gravity that I know of. Lots of people complain about the theory of evolution though. The reason is simple. The theory of gravity predicts that if you throw a television off a 6 story roof it will disorganize upon impact. The theory of evolution predicts that if you throw a television off a 6 story roof enough times it will reorganize itself into a supercomputer.

108

If God is real?

by suavojr in

jw
friends

if after you die you find yourself in front a god ready to judge you.

what will you say in your defense for not believing?

.

Perry

So Cofty,

Are you then OK with God judging sin, just not the hellfire part of the judgment?

Jesus spoke about some people being put in outer darkness....cold darkness for eternity, away from God.

Does that make you feel better about judgment? It doesn't me.

Your basic problem doesn't seem to really be with God's right to judge so much as it is with his kindness:

I do not need any "executive pardon" from the sick fantasy you call your god.