Posts by Perry

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Perry

Hi Iraneus,

The Watchtower has put forth huge elaborate schemes for one sole purpose in my opinion: To make the offer of an exchanged life unavailable to the JW member.

They do this by:

1. Teaching that Jesus died for Adam's loss...not yours.... Even though everyone will be judged individually AFTER they die (Heb. 9:27)

2. A person can atone for their own sin just by dying.

3. You cannot be Justified in this life, that's only for the 144K

4. Jehovah is not your father, only your potential father.

5. Jesus is not your Mediator

The WT 's illogical massive effort to keep people from receiving a "free gift" was one of the major things that got me to thinking: what was it that they were trying so dang hard to hide?

I am glad that I am not longer held prisoner by the idea that I cannot have EVERYTHING the scriptures say that I can have.

The scripture you cite in Duet. is absolutely true. But notice how Romans ch. 6 deals with this for the Christian believer:

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin. [not acquitted like the NWT reads]
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Christian receives a new spirit the moment he trusts Christ as his ONLY savior and Lord... apart from any religion or organization. His old spirit "dies" and he receives an incorruptible spirit as a down payment for when he is totally saved in spirit, soul & body at the resurrection (or rapture whichever comes first).

The works of the "old man" to try and pay for something, however well intentioned are unacceptable, and even deeply offensive to God after Calvary. The life of a Christian is an exchanged life , "Yet not I, but Christ who lives in me". Gal. 2:20

...The ultimate "Prince & the Pauper" scenario.

Hope this helps.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

Is God Jehovah/Yahweh ?Jesus for some , of the christian bible moral ?

Hi Smiddy,

Isn't that like saying that the Standard of Morality Isn't Moral? How can that be if he is the standard?

Or maybe this: The oxygen that we breathe isn't really oxygen because we breathe other stuff too.

Or possibly: The sky isn't really blue because there are a lot of other colors mixed in too.

How is such reasoning different that a "No Real Scotsman" fallacious argument. The logic put forth in such reasoning contradicts the premise of God.

You cite a number of good questions, though. There are many others just as rich. These are questions that when researched, dramatically enrich the understanding of God, clear some of the confusion, and helps establish a greater degree of reality.

Slavery

Rape

Genocide / Sex Slaves

Are the Genesis accounts borrowed from other cultures?

I highly encourage anyone to research the premises of these "lightning rod" subject titles as well as the facts surrounding such topics in their historical ancient near east (ANE) context.

Researching these topics and others like them helped me to very deeply understand that God was someone that I could personally trust. He has a plan. It is VERY interesting, even if seemingly long and drawn out from our perspective. It can get a little tedious, but will provide much food for thought.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

Without God, the basis for morality is subjective. The idea that morality can be deduced by trial and error on what makes a society successful or peaceful is itself also subjective, since "success" itself connotes subjective meaning.

Some cultures have institutional unforgiveness taught and practiced as a norm, and have done so for a VERY long time. They believe that only those that are deserving should be forgiven. Of course if a person deserves to be forgiven then he has earned it, and cannot really qualify for forgiveness.

In Western culture, because of our Christian heritage we put a premium on forgiveness & grace whenever possible. As a Christian, I can state that because I have been forgiven, I am under obligation to do the same. My morality is rooted in God.

Sometimes forgiveness is not possible, true. But the ethic is there looking for the opportunity. The atheist may do the exact same thing, but for different reasons. And, since he doesn't exist for God, he might just as easily change his mind as his rationale changes.

And what do you do when a group of people believe they can only experience peace, when for example they see you and your family marginalized, demoted, or exterminated ? The morality-derived- from-peace model goes out the window, that's what happens. Because, whose peace are we talking about; yours or theirs?

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gVpUxT-9H4

22

If the Borg is a Death Star, what is it's weakest spot?

by Darth FayDehr in

.

Perry

Once local elders get successfully sued, the whole thing shuts down real fast. That's why they are liquidating assets, doing online bible studies and generally back pedaling. Just a matter of time. Stay tuned.

7

Aggressive JWs in my area

by Alex Bogdanov in

jw
friends

i was called an "ugly person" by a jw because of my book.

this sister said that she doesn't mind me not being a jw but she hates me because i trashed jws in my book.

i told her that i didn't trash it i just wrote what i have learned about the org in 15 years.

Perry

I have looked at your mug shot. After close scrutiny and conferring with my wife, I would like to affirm that you are not an ugly person.

There. That settles it.

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

Perry

The way to look at is, NOT that the death itself forgives sin, only God can do that. He is the final authority, whose law was broken.

Why Not says:

Jesus death forgives sins yet the Bible also says our death forgives our sins. So, which is it?

Myeleine says it best above:

Does our death ever cancel our sin debt? No. We are not perfect nor was our death a sacrifice.

Our death cannot be a sacrifice since we are going to die anyway. It would be like giving you a car as a gift after a mechanic has just told me that the engine block is cracked and it will completely die within 1000 miles. It is no value to the giver and is actually an offence to the receiver.

The WT promoted the heresy of a person being able to atone for oneself through a twisting of a scripture in Romans Chapter 6

KJV:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

When a person accepts God's offer of pardon he is freed from the domination of sin in this life because he has a new spirit. Jesus spoke of this condition as being "born again".

But, the WT bible states that a person who has died is acquitted of sin. Not only is this a spiritual death, and as such does not apply the way the WT uses it as self-atonement, it is not an acquittal at all... but a freedom from sin. At first the impetus to sin is totally removed from the spirit when it is renewed at the moment a person trusts Jesus alone (without or apart from religion); Later, at the resurrection, the body is glorified and has no impetus to sin.

But no where does the NT claim that a person can atone for their own sin..."else Christ died for nothing.".

If a person does not accept Jesus sacrifice death as a substitute for their own by faith, they will have no justification for life at Judgement Day after they die.

What we do with Jesus in this life determines where we will spend eternity since the soul will be conscious for eternity. The eternal soul (mind) is a tremendous gift God has given us. But, it has the potential to be our greatest nightmare since it cannot be shut down at will.

19

Lies! Since the Watchtower knows how to lie, they can give expert advice on it.

by days of future passed in

study article for october: speaking the truth.

the article is about lying, but the wt is all about lying.

i guess they are concerned with their followers lying to them!.

Perry

Watchtower failed predictions vs. fulfilled bible prophecy

Now that would be a WT study that I'd attend!

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

Perry

dogmatic religious belief has killed millions

Half Bananna,

Ever heard of Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin ? They claimed to be atheists, without God, and killed 100 Million OF THEIR OWN people. Of course people who believe in God like Hitler supposedly did can be deluded murderers as well. But, on the whole, I believe that acknowledging that God will judge us after we die can have a very sobering effect on people.

This was the central message to the gentile world that the resurrected, very much alive Jesus commanded to be preached in Acts 10: 39-43

This is the basis of Christianity: in fulfilment of hundreds of prophecies, a man cam back from the dead and said he'd judge everyone after they die.

Today, the whole world counts time by this man and the resurrection is the best explanation of the facts.

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

Perry

I don't know about you but I feel no need for anyone's death to help me get this 'sin' out of my system.

I understand where you are coming from. But, keep in mind that running a business, a country or a human life based solely upon feelings is a recipe for utter disaster. Thankfully, much of reality that we experience is not determined by feelings. Our roadways are not governed feelings, our appointed judges do not judge based strictly on feelings. Feelings are a wonderful servant, but a cruel master.

I once watched a young man very up close and personal who was guilty of a crime that carried a maximum penalty of 25 years get sentenced. Prior to sentencing, in the holding area reserved for prisoners, he was utterly defiant, pacing and muttering over and over, "They gonna have to GIVE me my time, I aint takin nuttin".

His court-appointed attorney had negotiated a deal of only 7 years with the prosecutor. All he had to do was sign the paper-work. He was a young man with his whole life ahead of him. I kept watching him pace in the holding cell, muttering his defiance. His mouth was constantly moving.

Finally, his name was called to go before the judge, and he left. In only a few minutes he returned to the holding area for the prisoners. He was withdrawn. His pacing had stopped. He made for the nearest wall/bench and plopped himself down with his knees up near his chin like a child. Someone asked him if if got the 25, he nodded yes, he didn't speak.

The Law (and inevitable judgment) had finally stopped his mouth and his feelings from dominating him.