Posts by Perry

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Perry

No one has refuted anything. This is the sound doctrine taught by Jesus himself, his apostles, and all born again Christians for the last 2000 years. Good grief!

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye [all of you] all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. - Mt. 26:27-28 (KJV)

God spent 1500 years having people celebrate the Passover to get them ready for the arrival of the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". Remember that? That was where the blood of the lamb was placed above the door and on the posts. Those under the blood were saved.

For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us - 1 Cor. 5: 7

I mean I get it that atheists, agnostics and others in other religions do not accept Christs death on their behalf. What boggles my mind though is people who read the scriptures (the SAME ones I do) and come up with the opposite of what is so clearly taught in the scriptures.... like the one cited above. It is just flat out weird, twilight zone sort of stuff.

The only explanation is some sort of supernatural influence. It is just weird stuff I tell you.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus - Romans 8: 1
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ - 2 Cor. 4:3

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Perry

Yet this is what Bible put it with absolute clarity: “Eternity” resides in each one’s physical body. (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
You can find many people thinking in above lines:
“Surely God would not have created such a being as man, with an ability to grasp the infinite, to exist only for a day! No, no, man was made for immortality.” (Abraham Lincoln)
“I would love to believe that when I die …. some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue.” (Carl Sagan)

The soul is eternal, like its creator. It was designed for unending fellowship with God so that they may enjoy each other forever. I wrote this page with JWs in mind on the topic.

Because of its very nature, the soul cannot be annihilated. This is a two edged sword. Imagine being in "outer darkness" separated from everything for eternity. And, this is the best destination described in the scriptures for the lost, other places are far worse. Why? Because God is Pro Choice. No one can ever claim that God didn't give them what they wanted.

The Gates of Hell are all locked from the inside.

God's wants people to believe him so that he can spoil them, pour out his blessing on them and so that they can learn about him forever, since he is the Repository of all that is good, and all knowledge that currently is known or that will ever be known.

Unbelief separates a person from God's treasures, now and in eternity. Belief unlocks them all... Salvation being only the first of such treasures.

But WOE to those who refuse the King's Treasures.

Hebrews 10:29-31 (KJV)

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite (disrespectfully) unto the Spirit of grace? ...I will recompense [Give them what they want], saith the Lord.

They will NEVER be able to stop their consciousness. They will have unending consciousness without God - alone and without common grace, that believer and unbeliever alike now enjoy.

Most of the influences in this life (including many of the posters on this forum) are preparing people's minds to hate God so that they may curse him and exist apart from him for eternity.

Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.

3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. - James (brother of Jesus)

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Perry

Good Morning Ireneus,

What guarantee is there for those things to be true especially in view of the fact Jesus himself foretold truth will be overpowered by interpolators and false teachers who will be operating in “his name”

We know they are true because your can read it for yourself in the Word of God. If anyone teaches a doctrine that is new...alarm bells go off.

If anyone teaches a doctrine of new light....alarm bells go off.

If anyone says you have to defend God's name Jehovah to get saved instead of coming to Christ .... alarm bells go off.

If anyone says you have to belong to their organization in order to get right with God ... alarm bells go off.

Jesus said, "Come to Me, and I will give you rest". We get into trouble when we seek to do business with anyone other than Jesus, however, good reasonable, logical, righteous, or otherwise appealing it may seem. It is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

My "sheep hear my voice" .... "another voice they simply will not follow".

"I am the door" ... if anyone seeks to get in by some other way, he is a thief and a robber" - Jesus

"though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1: 8

Everything has been frozen with the passing of the apostles. You can read it for yourself in the bible. Every now and then you can do a search for just about any doctrine and add the phrase "early church fathers" to your google search.

That phrase sounds catholic I know, but it is the phrase the gets you to the early congregation elders and what they understood the apostles to mean. They wrote a LOT of stuff because the heretics of the day were putting forth all kinds of stuff designed to lead people away from the "sufficiency of Christ" Several were students of the apostles themselves.

But the bible is the primary source, by far.

33

Irrationality of in important teaching

by Ireneus in

jesus used illustration to make things clear.

hence imagine yourself in a situation which reminds you of an important teaching:.

you are in a super market, and you are told: “someone has already paid for whatever you have purchased”[as churches teach through their ransom sacrifice].

Perry

Hi Iraneus,

The Watchtower has put forth huge elaborate schemes for one sole purpose in my opinion: To make the offer of an exchanged life unavailable to the JW member.

They do this by:

1. Teaching that Jesus died for Adam's loss...not yours.... Even though everyone will be judged individually AFTER they die (Heb. 9:27)

2. A person can atone for their own sin just by dying.

3. You cannot be Justified in this life, that's only for the 144K

4. Jehovah is not your father, only your potential father.

5. Jesus is not your Mediator

The WT 's illogical massive effort to keep people from receiving a "free gift" was one of the major things that got me to thinking: what was it that they were trying so dang hard to hide?

I am glad that I am not longer held prisoner by the idea that I cannot have EVERYTHING the scriptures say that I can have.

The scripture you cite in Duet. is absolutely true. But notice how Romans ch. 6 deals with this for the Christian believer:

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin. [not acquitted like the NWT reads]
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Christian receives a new spirit the moment he trusts Christ as his ONLY savior and Lord... apart from any religion or organization. His old spirit "dies" and he receives an incorruptible spirit as a down payment for when he is totally saved in spirit, soul & body at the resurrection (or rapture whichever comes first).

The works of the "old man" to try and pay for something, however well intentioned are unacceptable, and even deeply offensive to God after Calvary. The life of a Christian is an exchanged life , "Yet not I, but Christ who lives in me". Gal. 2:20

...The ultimate "Prince & the Pauper" scenario.

Hope this helps.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

Is God Jehovah/Yahweh ?Jesus for some , of the christian bible moral ?

Hi Smiddy,

Isn't that like saying that the Standard of Morality Isn't Moral? How can that be if he is the standard?

Or maybe this: The oxygen that we breathe isn't really oxygen because we breathe other stuff too.

Or possibly: The sky isn't really blue because there are a lot of other colors mixed in too.

How is such reasoning different that a "No Real Scotsman" fallacious argument. The logic put forth in such reasoning contradicts the premise of God.

You cite a number of good questions, though. There are many others just as rich. These are questions that when researched, dramatically enrich the understanding of God, clear some of the confusion, and helps establish a greater degree of reality.

Slavery

Rape

Genocide / Sex Slaves

Are the Genesis accounts borrowed from other cultures?

I highly encourage anyone to research the premises of these "lightning rod" subject titles as well as the facts surrounding such topics in their historical ancient near east (ANE) context.

Researching these topics and others like them helped me to very deeply understand that God was someone that I could personally trust. He has a plan. It is VERY interesting, even if seemingly long and drawn out from our perspective. It can get a little tedious, but will provide much food for thought.

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

Without God, the basis for morality is subjective. The idea that morality can be deduced by trial and error on what makes a society successful or peaceful is itself also subjective, since "success" itself connotes subjective meaning.

Some cultures have institutional unforgiveness taught and practiced as a norm, and have done so for a VERY long time. They believe that only those that are deserving should be forgiven. Of course if a person deserves to be forgiven then he has earned it, and cannot really qualify for forgiveness.

In Western culture, because of our Christian heritage we put a premium on forgiveness & grace whenever possible. As a Christian, I can state that because I have been forgiven, I am under obligation to do the same. My morality is rooted in God.

Sometimes forgiveness is not possible, true. But the ethic is there looking for the opportunity. The atheist may do the exact same thing, but for different reasons. And, since he doesn't exist for God, he might just as easily change his mind as his rationale changes.

And what do you do when a group of people believe they can only experience peace, when for example they see you and your family marginalized, demoted, or exterminated ? The morality-derived- from-peace model goes out the window, that's what happens. Because, whose peace are we talking about; yours or theirs?

51

Without god what is the basis of morality?

by OneEyedJoe in

i'm sure most here who've questioned or left behind their belief in god have encountered this question - without god, what basis can there be for morality?

my exwife, when i admitted that i was an atheist, once asked me "if you don't believe in god, what's to stop you from going out and raping and murdering?

" previously, whenever i got this objection, i would tend to turn it around on the other person with a response along the lines of "if fear of god is the only thing that stops you from murdering, that makes me rather nervous to be around you.

Perry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gVpUxT-9H4

22

If the Borg is a Death Star, what is it's weakest spot?

by Darth FayDehr in

.

Perry

Once local elders get successfully sued, the whole thing shuts down real fast. That's why they are liquidating assets, doing online bible studies and generally back pedaling. Just a matter of time. Stay tuned.

7

Aggressive JWs in my area

by Alex Bogdanov in

jw
friends

i was called an "ugly person" by a jw because of my book.

this sister said that she doesn't mind me not being a jw but she hates me because i trashed jws in my book.

i told her that i didn't trash it i just wrote what i have learned about the org in 15 years.

Perry

I have looked at your mug shot. After close scrutiny and conferring with my wife, I would like to affirm that you are not an ugly person.

There. That settles it.

33

Child sacrifice and Jesus' sacrifice

by Whynot in

jeremiah 7:31 says, "they have built the high places of toʹpheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that i had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’".

according to this scripture it's unthinkable for jehovah to be pleased with child sacrifices.

but yet he sent his son to be killed as a sacrifice for all?.

Perry

The way to look at is, NOT that the death itself forgives sin, only God can do that. He is the final authority, whose law was broken.

Why Not says:

Jesus death forgives sins yet the Bible also says our death forgives our sins. So, which is it?

Myeleine says it best above:

Does our death ever cancel our sin debt? No. We are not perfect nor was our death a sacrifice.

Our death cannot be a sacrifice since we are going to die anyway. It would be like giving you a car as a gift after a mechanic has just told me that the engine block is cracked and it will completely die within 1000 miles. It is no value to the giver and is actually an offence to the receiver.

The WT promoted the heresy of a person being able to atone for oneself through a twisting of a scripture in Romans Chapter 6

KJV:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

When a person accepts God's offer of pardon he is freed from the domination of sin in this life because he has a new spirit. Jesus spoke of this condition as being "born again".

But, the WT bible states that a person who has died is acquitted of sin. Not only is this a spiritual death, and as such does not apply the way the WT uses it as self-atonement, it is not an acquittal at all... but a freedom from sin. At first the impetus to sin is totally removed from the spirit when it is renewed at the moment a person trusts Jesus alone (without or apart from religion); Later, at the resurrection, the body is glorified and has no impetus to sin.

But no where does the NT claim that a person can atone for their own sin..."else Christ died for nothing.".

If a person does not accept Jesus sacrifice death as a substitute for their own by faith, they will have no justification for life at Judgement Day after they die.

What we do with Jesus in this life determines where we will spend eternity since the soul will be conscious for eternity. The eternal soul (mind) is a tremendous gift God has given us. But, it has the potential to be our greatest nightmare since it cannot be shut down at will.