Perry

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Posts by Perry

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  77

  Creation, evolution, ???

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was on the bus today and got into a discussion somehow with the driver and ok be ood his work colleagues about whether there's life in other planets, evolution and creation.

  the driver believes there must be other life out there, i agree with him that life can't be unique to this planet out of the billions that exist.

  his colleague who i think might be a jw by his attitude and reasoning skills thinks we're the only planet with life on it and it was made perfect and exact purposely for humans.

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  Perry

  Vidiot,

  Of course creationists posit an uncaused Cause. This is called an assumption. So, there is no reason to claim that you are just now figuring this out. It has always been so. (And no one is claiming that this is testable science. )

  Gen. 1:1 makes this clear. “In the beginning (time) God”. He is assumed to be self existing.

  The rest of the verse : created the heavens (three dimensional space) and the earth (matter).

  So, from the very first verse in the Bible a person can ascertain that God is self existing and brought time, space and matter into existence simultaneously.

  But, Waton claims something just as religious (if not more) when he believes that an uncaused explosion created Laws, intelligence, vast information, and consciousness. This is his chosen religion. And, it is his right and should not be disparaged by us for his choice.

  But as I pointed out, his belief is not science. It is an assumption.
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  12

  New JW.org Logo

  by Not_Culty in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  Perry

  I like how some are just starting to struggle to get out, while others are bookin' it.

  Brilliant.
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  77

  Creation, evolution, ???

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was on the bus today and got into a discussion somehow with the driver and ok be ood his work colleagues about whether there's life in other planets, evolution and creation.

  the driver believes there must be other life out there, i agree with him that life can't be unique to this planet out of the billions that exist.

  his colleague who i think might be a jw by his attitude and reasoning skills thinks we're the only planet with life on it and it was made perfect and exact purposely for humans.

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  Perry

  There is no evidence of supernatural tinkering (miracles) so: all we have is the result of natural processes, all that came in the package served in the Big Beginning, energy, matter, law and spacetime.

  waton,

  A reasonable person could just as easily turn this around on you and state the there is no evidence of explosions creating order, information, physical laws, consciousness etc. In fact current, present (real science) experiments indicate just the opposite of what you believe.

  You are believing something that has no basis whatsoever in observable/testable science. That is a testable statement of fact. All we have to do is examine all the explosions ever recorded, maybe do a few explosions of our own (that feature of the experiment alone would make the exercise worthwhile :-) ); and then see how many of the things that you hypothesize came into existence from the original explosion, happened in our test samples.

  You call your belief system a "resume of sciences". I would challenge you to examine any scientific data and present it here that would indicate that explosions can create anything other than a mess, much less physical laws, information like DNA and consciousness and intelligence.
  
  Now, I don't have the slightest problem with you or anyone else believing anything you want. That is called freedom. The belief system that you subscribe to is called naturalism or materialism. There are laws that govern this belief system as well. But, just don't call it science.
  
  I personally subscribe to a creation model. When shopping for a worldview after leaving the Watchtower, I suspended judgment for a few years and took the time to examine evidence that I personally could test. I found that creation was a much better fit of known facts:

  1. Life always comes from previous life

  2. Information always comes from a mind

  3. Random explosions always create chaos and not order

  4. Laws always come from a lawgiver
  
  Based on these facts, I then proceeded to believe in an original Life, Mind & Lawgiver. This is my assumption for interpreting the world. It is not science, but your explosion theory is not science either. I have come to the conclusion that it takes infinitely more faith to believe in a everything-from-a-random-explosion event, than it does to believe in an original intelligence. Either way, both require assumptions.... in other words, religion.

  The best we can do is to determine which assumption better fits known facts.
  
  - Just my opinion of course.
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  12

  New JW.org Logo

  by Not_Culty in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  Perry

  Good Job! So full of meaning. A picture says a thousand words.
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  77

  Creation, evolution, ???

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was on the bus today and got into a discussion somehow with the driver and ok be ood his work colleagues about whether there's life in other planets, evolution and creation.

  the driver believes there must be other life out there, i agree with him that life can't be unique to this planet out of the billions that exist.

  his colleague who i think might be a jw by his attitude and reasoning skills thinks we're the only planet with life on it and it was made perfect and exact purposely for humans.

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  Perry

  Hi waton:

  Without that BB we would not be here, evolution would not have happened, a process made possible by the laws of nature and it's structure.

  So you believe a random explosion (Big Bang) caused evolution, logical processes, laws of physics and even your own consciousness?
  
  That is quite a belief!
  
  I also have an assumption (belief) about our origin: God-did-it
  

  Q: Why don't we see explosions today bring about more incredibly useful, logical and beautiful things?
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  23

  How To Become Who You Are

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  being a jehovah's witness for many years has a very damaging effect on becoming who he really are, many of the drives we were born with get subverted to corporation's directives, and we stuff lots of ourselves into our shadow(jungian), as we take on the "new personality" we become an easy to manipulate corporate drone.

  in other words we really loose contact with authentic self, and to some extent a little hollow.. a search for our true self will require some alone time and can be scary and filled with some perils.

  i did it for some time and it can make you a little odd, and you could wind up doing some crazy shit but over all i will say it was necessary and eventually rewarding, and i gotten quite used to it and now a days i have people around but value my time alone when every i can get it.. anyway this video interest me and i thought i would share.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfyczlbcavk.

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  Perry

  "if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." - Nietzsche

  He was a nihilist, meaning that he believed in the meaninglessness of life, the world, and he rejected moral standards.....a predictable conclusion when exploring the deep recesses of the self.
  

  He eventually went insane.
  

  Poor man.
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  77

  Creation, evolution, ???

  by Freedom rocks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was on the bus today and got into a discussion somehow with the driver and ok be ood his work colleagues about whether there's life in other planets, evolution and creation.

  the driver believes there must be other life out there, i agree with him that life can't be unique to this planet out of the billions that exist.

  his colleague who i think might be a jw by his attitude and reasoning skills thinks we're the only planet with life on it and it was made perfect and exact purposely for humans.

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  Perry

  How would you have argued this topic if you were In the conversation?

  Physical life forms may be unique to earth, maybe not. There is a difference between what we can test and replicate here, in the present; and that which we can theorize about far away or in the past.
  
  Present Science deals with current facts. Even if they are subject to world views, confirmation bias, and other selection criteria.
  
  Theoretical Science deals with beliefs and assumptions.
  
  The nice thing about freedom is that we are free to believe whatever we want. But theoretical science, is not science in the way most people think of as established-fact-observable-repeatable "present science".
  
  
  
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  5

  2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

  jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

  such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

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  Perry

  
  
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  5

  2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

  jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

  such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

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  Perry

  There's that darn thing. I been looking for that earring!
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  37

  How were God’s true worshipers to determine virginity of pagan girls?

  by Ireneus in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the genocidal instructions supposedly given by god we find this interesting command: “now kill all the boys.

  and kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.” (numbers 31:17, 18).

  in the midst of killing and plundering, how were the israelites to determine whether each girl “has slept with a man” or not?.

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  Perry

  Ireneus,

  Did you read this link I posted the last time you posted something on this?
  
  Because I think it clears up a lot of the misconceptions.