Posts by Perry

20

Humans only survive for 3-5 days without water...

by purrpurr in

and yet today's watchtower and indeed the bible condemns the israelites for moaning about having no water!

it's never occurred to me how unjust this is!

and how could a so called loving god not provide a basic human need?!.

Perry

Hi purrpurr,

You post triggered a lot of thoughts for me.

It does seem like something unusual was going on concerning the water. Why didn't God supply a steady water source so that they (the Israelites) wouldn't fret? After all, their clothes had some sort of ongoing blessing where they didn't wear out. Why a different treatment with the need for water?

First of all, I think it is important to remember that the Israelites were in the wilderness because of their own choosing. They were in the situation that they were in because they were focusing on their seeming impossible obstacles, instead of God. They had the opportunity to enter the promised land, but ten of the 12 spies came back afraid, and without faith. They chose to not enter the promised Land. This is after the 10 plagues of Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea & the miraculous defeat of Pharoah. And especially important, it was after a covenanat relationship was mediated by Moses between the nation of Israel & God.

The problem was that the Israelites were still thinking like a defeated, enslaved people. The people had been taken out of slavery, but the slavery had not yet been taken out of the people.

The 40 years in the Wilderness was a training ground. Little by little they gained faith in God to the point when they came to the foot of the promised land a second time; They decided that they would take the land offered.

The "problems" that were preventing them 40 years earlier, were not problems after all. The walls of Jericho?; they came tumbling down. The giants? - they are not even mentioned in the description of the takeover.

Why the harsh treatment of Moses not being allowed to enter the Promised Land? Perhaps it is because when he took credit for giving the people water, it went against the very lesson that was having to be learned the hard way, over and over... every day for 40 years. If the people elevated Moses to the position of a life-giver, it would only prolong and already drawn-out ordeal concerning faith in God.

It was for everyone's benefit that Moses be left behind. So that, now when they faced the enemy (without Moses) they could be sure that it was the faithfulness of God toward his people and not some sort of favor to Moses himself that ensured their success.

What is particularly troubling about the Watchtower pointing to such examples of faith in the bible is the fact that the Watchtower has fooled people into rejecting the very covenant that God offers people as a basis for their personal success. Then, while the people are in a position OUTSIDE of a covenant relationship with God, they try to get people to waste their time (1.) waiting of Jehovah, (2) having faith in God's potential to act, (3.) serving a publishing corporation as a way of making peace with God.

It is the height of all ignorance to put faith in God while at the same time actively and knowingly rejecting his agreement that he offers for membership into his family household. It is incredibly insulting.

Warning from Hebrews:

But Christ, when He came as a High Priest of the good things to come...by His own blood, He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption....

But you have come to...the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,...24 and to Jesus, the Mediator of a new covenant; ...

25 See that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused Him who spoke on earth, much less shall we escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven....

How much more severe a punishment do you suppose he deserves, who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded the blood of the covenant that sanctified him to be a common thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

The Watchtower treats the New Covenant as a "has been", unimportant to the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses.... done away with in 1914 etc. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect any grace of God under these conditions. Yet, many JW's spend their entire lives in slavery to an organization, choosing the wilderness instead of the promised land of freedom and sonship with God.

John 1: 12 -

Yet to all who received Him, He gave the power to become sons of God

Ephesians 2 -

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, 9 not of works, so that no one should boast.

37

God and the afterlife. Do you need to believe in both

by moley in

i consider myself an atheist, i completely reject the idea of a totalitarian desert god/any god and the bible is a book of fairytales and folk legends.. i do however sort of believe that this life is not all there is.

i’m not talking about heaven or hell but in a tangible state of being.. there are a few experiences i’ve had in my llife.

could be imagined could be real.

Perry

Hey there waton,

It is hard to imagine a scenario where one of the three could exist without the other two. Stephen Hawkin concluded this about time:

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning."

Article

37

God and the afterlife. Do you need to believe in both

by moley in

i consider myself an atheist, i completely reject the idea of a totalitarian desert god/any god and the bible is a book of fairytales and folk legends.. i do however sort of believe that this life is not all there is.

i’m not talking about heaven or hell but in a tangible state of being.. there are a few experiences i’ve had in my llife.

could be imagined could be real.

Perry

Hi Crazy Guy,

Our own troubles are real for sure. But compared to what? I think the issue of scale is important.

Ravi Zacharias makes some interesting points along this line at a Columbia University Q & A session.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vtUQ1BksGQ

37

God and the afterlife. Do you need to believe in both

by moley in

i consider myself an atheist, i completely reject the idea of a totalitarian desert god/any god and the bible is a book of fairytales and folk legends.. i do however sort of believe that this life is not all there is.

i’m not talking about heaven or hell but in a tangible state of being.. there are a few experiences i’ve had in my llife.

could be imagined could be real.

Perry

Hi FHN,

Good to hear from you again. Hope you have been well. That is also a very good question.

If your question contains an assumption of time when you used the phrase "come from", then that is not consistent with the character of God (the First Life) described in the dictionary since he is Omnipresent. (all-present). This term means that God is capable of being everywhere at the same time. In other words not restrained by time in any way.

But since you asked "Where", that is much easier to answer: From outside of our space-time-matter universe/dimension. This answer is consistent with both modern scientific assumption and biblical theology since both postulate our universe having a beginning. In other words, an infinite digression of cause and effect events, (or infinite historical life-from-previous-life) doesn't fit either model.

The first ten words of Genesis relates eyewitness testimony of creation from the "first" life:

In the beginning (time has a beginning), God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

So time, space and matter came into existence simultaneously. Time, space and matter are simply inventions born from the mind of God, the ultimate energy source. If he invented these things, then he is certainly not bound by them and exists outside of their influence and constraints.

Hope this helps.

37

God and the afterlife. Do you need to believe in both

by moley in

i consider myself an atheist, i completely reject the idea of a totalitarian desert god/any god and the bible is a book of fairytales and folk legends.. i do however sort of believe that this life is not all there is.

i’m not talking about heaven or hell but in a tangible state of being.. there are a few experiences i’ve had in my llife.

could be imagined could be real.

Perry

Hi moley. That is a very good question. - Could there be an afterlife without a Creator?

So I guess you are talking about "consciousness"? I guess if our present life appeared from non-life then it could be possible, sure. If one, why not the other?

But, there is nothing to base this on in science or our own experience. Life always comes from previous life. Information always comes from a mind; And consciousness always comes from prior consciousness.

15

Blueblades Pacemaker Update.

by Charles Gillette in

jw
friends

well,to all who had wished me good health before i went for my procedure,thank you.

9/14 pacemaker was inserted below my collarbone successfully.check up will be 9/18.. so, since 2012 when i was 67,i had open heart surgery to replace my aortic valve with a bovine tissue valve.

now at 73, i have an implanted pacemaker with two leads,one for the upper chamber, right atrium and one for the lower right chamber,ventricle of the heart.. so, my heart beats should now be steady and not in and out of afib.. both of my brothers died of heart attacks.

Perry

Glad the procedure went well blueblades! My mother had the same thing and it worked wonders for her. Did anyone ever tell you that you look a little like Elvis?

18

J.W.Sisters are not recognized as part of the 144000 Anointed class by the Governing Body of Jehovah`s Witnesses and never have been.

by smiddy3 in

rev.14: 1-6 describes the 144000 as males who do not defile themselves with women and are classed as virgins.?.

how does the governing body of j.w.`s explain that a man having a sexual relationship with a woman defiles a man?.

isn`t this or shouldn`t this be an affront to women who are jehovah`s witnesses ?

Perry

Nice Topic for discussion.

The Watchtower has the Church Age ending in 1914 ....that's their biggest problem in interpreting scripture.

The 144K are future yet-to-be-seen Israelis, just like it says.

“Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” (Revelation 7:4)

This fits the initial claim that the book of Revelation is about future events...prophecy. It would be illogical to assume this is a symbolic characterization of then-living Christians that extended until WT leaders effectively shut down the "Church Age" with their heretical 1914-gentile-times-has-ended teachings.

Rather:

1. The New Testament is still open for business (The WT claims the NT was written only for the 144K and that all positions are filled)

2. All Christian believers (Christ Alone as their Mediator) are anointed, this is clear in scripture

3. When the church age does near it's end, the rapture will take place and evacuate believers from earth in glorified bodies like Jesus had after his resurrection

4. After this (or around this time) the temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and animal sacrifices will continue there (as they already have in the past few years nearby)

5. 144,000 Israelis who "get it" will be preaching Jesus during the tribulation period leading up to Armageddon.

The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will allow human leaders (the Anti-Christ and his minions) a much greater reign of terror than has ever been previously seen. Their reign of terror is in a sense God's judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel.

All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

Jesus will literally rule for 1000 years on the throne of David his fore-father from the re-built 3rd temple in Jerusalem. The modern nation of Israel will one day welcome their long-ago crucified King.

1. Church-age believers will have glorified bodies. Although their citizenship is in heaven, they will doubtless be very active in governmental activities on and over earth. They will have physical bodies suitable for life in heaven and earth, like Jesus had. "We will be like him".

2. Redeemed Israel and the "great multitude" (many other nation groups who survive the tribulation period) will continue living on earth as subjects of the King.

This is the mainstream Christian view.

6

Watchtower History

by vienne in

some of you read our history blog and have read our first two books.

we're pushing to finish volume 2, separate identity.

a rough draft chapter from volume 2 is up on our blog.

Perry

Interesting accounts of those that joined the Watchtower in the early days.

From the few I read, a recurring theme for early adherents seems to be a critical attitude of traditional believers and a desire to work for their salvation.

Not much has changed I guess.

Do you have a website?

24

Dis-fellowshipped For Not Going To The Kingdom Hall You Are Assigned Too

by new boy in

jw
friends

my parents started attending the glendora congregation in 1961. my mother had a strange feeling about the congregation.

there was something going on there that just didn’t feel right.

there was a huge exodus going on of people leaving this congregation’s kingdom hall too.

Perry

Amazing story new boy. Thanks for sharing it.

26

Carts on both ends of the farmersmarket

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

my wife and me have a booth at the local framers market.

there is usually about 12 t0 14 vendors each week on a small short street in town.

what is funny on each end of this short street are cart setups with 3 people on each cart.

Perry

Sad