Posts by Perry

73

1975—Were You Affected By What 1975 Was Supposed to Bring?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for years , we were told to wait until 1975!.

the end was coming and we better be ready—or else!.

were you around during this “momentous “ time??

Perry

I was 12 years old in 1975. Starting around age 7 or 8, I started keeping track of how many years I had left to live. For some reason, I (and other kids as well) identified with the destroyed, and not the survivors.

The older I get, the more I realize the effects that this false prophecy had on me as a young man. I entered my teenage years in 1976 when it became apparent that we were lied to. I trusted no one after this, and became very jaded. When I saw the elder's lips moving, I assumed they were telling more lies. 13 years of age is a rough age to "wake up" since there is no place to go.

In general, I think my particular age group was hit pretty hard. We saw the hype, lived with the "sure expectation" of an early death, and then saw the utter hypocrisy when everyone swept it all under the rug.

We all tried to make peace with our loved ones, to no avail if we didn't go along in worshiping their WT idol. The adults couldn't figure out "what was wrong" with us kids. Why weren't we more spiritual? A great percentage of us became pretty hard core dope smokers just to numb to pain of 1. Having our faith in God stolen; 2. Having our trust in authority figures robbed; & 3. living under the condemnation of our loved ones for not jumping on the band wagon with them.

My friend, who was one of the elders kids, held deep resentment toward his parents until their death over this. He has continued his drug use until this very day as far as I'm aware of. He informed me a few years ago that he is officially Wiccan in his belief system... which he describes as "non-belief" just an appreciation of sex and nature.

We were in the same class in the 4th grade. He and I were made to stand in the hall every single day for not saluting the flag. The teacher would yell out his name and mine every morning and would gesture with her thumb for us to go stand in the Hall while the rest of the class recited the pledge of alliegence. She utterly hated us. Someone once told me that she lost a son in the Vietnam War.

Andy laughingly once told me what he did to his mother when she died. He said that when she was on her death bed that she told him that she only had one final wish before she died. He asked her what it was. He probably hoped for some sort of apology or expression of love for him.

Rather, she told him that her final wish was for him to get baptized as a JW. His mother professed to be of the "anointed".

I remember her being very abrasive as a parent. I did not like visiting their house, which was only a few streets over.

Anyway, He told me that he waited until the very moment that she was slipping off into death to whisper into her ear, "I don't believe a word of it".

He wanted that to be the last words that she heard in this life.

Sorry to ramble on.... 1975 just triggers so many unpleasant memories for me. Fred Franz and the whole Hee Haw gang has Hell to pay for what they did to us kids.

30

There is something I don't understand about the selling off of Kingdom Halls

by Tameria2001 in

i have been reading where the watchtower is closing down kingdom halls.

there is something that i don't understand, or maybe i am just misunderstanding it.

can someone clear this up for me?

Perry

I believe there was an incident in Bonham, TX where the elders tried to separate from the WT. I believe they were successful in keeping the property. The WT then paid for a new KH down the street.

It was in 1986 or '87 I believe. I had recently moved to Dallas and was invited to help with the retaliatory "Quick-Build". Hundreds showed up to work. Everyone wanted to show the evil apostates that their resistance against the WT was futile.

29

question about the go bags.

by goingthruthemotions in

its been a minute since posting, have been trying to put this cult in my review mirror and just live life.

but you know this beast rears it's evil head.

my wife found my crisis of conscience book and out came the horns plus i guess what she is hearing at the meetings isn't helping either.

Perry

This JW family has embraced the new kind of Witnessing.

Put your neighbor in your trunk and tell the to say "Jehovah" ten times while you drive them into the New System.

28

Has Robert Ciranko replaced Don Adams as president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania ?

by EdenOne in

robert ciranko has been a "helper" of the governing body in the writing department.. don adams (born 1925, presumably 91 years old now) has been president of the wtbts since 2000. .

however, in recent official posts (april 2016), robert ciranko is identified as "president of the watch tower".

does anybody know what happened and if this is an official change?.

Perry

If we hold on tightly to the skirt of a spiritual Jew they will lead us to the New World.”

Here are a few scriptures to show just how wrong this man is when characterizing his hope:

Jeremiah 17:5 - Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Psalms 118:9 - better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

Psalms 118:8-9 - better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Galatians 6:3 - For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Romans 13:8 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

John 15:4 - Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me....for without me ye can do nothing.

50

Overwhelmed

by Freedom rocks in

does anyone else feel overwhelmed on what to believe?.

i've been doing lots of research on beliefs, evolution, creationism but i feel no further forward about what i truly believe.

for example i looked at the fossil record and tiktaalic and thought great it proves a lot but then i've seen counter arguments on youtube of people basically saying its a load of rubbish and doesn't prove anything.

Perry

StarryNight,

The findings were published in the peer reviewed journal Human Evolution. The findings directly impact the theory of evolution. For example:

It is classic evolutionary textbook biology, to assume that species with large, far-flung populations—think ants, rats, humans—will become more genetically diverse over time.

But is that true?

"The answer is no," said Stoeckle, the lead author.

61

Simple introduction to the theory of evolution

by Diogenesister in

forum
links

hi new folks, lurkers and trolls.

i thought i would post this simple but interesting video which shows how scientists bring multiple lines of evidence together to prove evolution is true; for example:.

comparative anatomy.

Perry

TD,

You do realize that many genes and traits are dormant, turned off, or otherwise not expressed; but still present in the Genome of individuals?

What was there to prevent God from flipping a few switches when fashioning Eve from Adam's rib, or even rearranging expressive genes from the complete genome that was already available from Adam? All I'm saying is that cloning does not follow the premise of an Eve-from-Adam scenario where Adam's genome was packed with all the diversity God wanted.

Nipples: During the first several weeks, male and female embryos follow the same blueprint, which includes the development of nipples. However, at about six weeks of gestation, a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that lead to the development of the testes, the organ that makes and stores sperm and produces testosterone, according to the book "Exploring the Biological Contributions to Human Health: Does Sex Matter?" (National Academies Press, 2001).

After the testes are formed, the male fetus begins producing testosterone at about nine weeks of gestation, changing the genetic activity of cells in the genitals and brain. But by then, those nipples aren't going anywhere.

Additionally, a single chest design may make the genetic code simpler, more efficient, and less prone to error. Nipples are also an aid to sexual pleasure. Men and women have the same number of nerve endings in this location. God’s design of the human body is wise beyond imagination (Psalm 139:14).

The fact that males may carry some undeveloped "female" traits and females may have some undeveloped "male" traits like undeveloped sperm ducts behind their ovaries is not surprising to me since the cell groupings for the sex organs for both sexes start out the same.

Are you suggesting that this is evidence of evolution? If so, how? I don't see the connection.

50

Overwhelmed

by Freedom rocks in

does anyone else feel overwhelmed on what to believe?.

i've been doing lots of research on beliefs, evolution, creationism but i feel no further forward about what i truly believe.

for example i looked at the fossil record and tiktaalic and thought great it proves a lot but then i've seen counter arguments on youtube of people basically saying its a load of rubbish and doesn't prove anything.

Perry

Here's a recent large sweeping gene survey study that claims 90% of all animals appeared recently at the same time as man. Amazingly, the study also claims that "species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between." Sounds close to what you’d expect to find based on the Genesis account of origins.

This is exciting news for creationists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=817&v=6qPsJ_a5gZA

Why is this of interest? Well for me the answer is obvious: If we were created by a being who is capable of starting life as we know it, it is reasonable to assume that he has the power over death as well.

If he does exist, we just might be able to make friends with him and keep living. Why should we cease to exist if we are friends with someone like that?

50

Overwhelmed

by Freedom rocks in

does anyone else feel overwhelmed on what to believe?.

i've been doing lots of research on beliefs, evolution, creationism but i feel no further forward about what i truly believe.

for example i looked at the fossil record and tiktaalic and thought great it proves a lot but then i've seen counter arguments on youtube of people basically saying its a load of rubbish and doesn't prove anything.

Perry

Hi Freedom Rocks,

As others have noted, it is important to recognize our limitations when looking to our origins. Acceptance of this fact is a milestone in our development here on this 3rd rock from the sun. I posted this on another thread recently:

My basic premise is that while all people are equal, ideas are not equal. And, while we cannot go back in time and see for ourselves what happened, we can try to ground certain conclusions with things we know to be facts (premises) now. Things like:

1. All life comes from previous life

2. All information comes from a mind

3. All books have authors

Etc.

A Transcendent God (one outside of our 3 dimensional universe) conclusion doesn't contradict the premises I listed above.

An evolutionary origin does violate them since there are no examples that could falsify the above premises listed.

Neither conclusion can be proved empirically, but that is not the point. The point is; which conclusion best harmonizes with known facts? Of course, if one or more of my premises are not true, then there might be a basis for a different conclusion. But short of that, a Transcendent God is a better conclusion.

The above might be a good place to start.

61

Simple introduction to the theory of evolution

by Diogenesister in

forum
links

hi new folks, lurkers and trolls.

i thought i would post this simple but interesting video which shows how scientists bring multiple lines of evidence together to prove evolution is true; for example:.

comparative anatomy.

Perry

TD,

Thank you for your reasoned and polite take on the subject. I do realize that talking about Creation on a forum full of folks who's lives has been utterly decimated by religion is going to elicit strong feelings, even ridicule. However, I do think that reasoned and honest dialog is possible, even in light of all of our pain.

My basic premise is that while all people are equal, ideas most certainly are not equal. And, while we cannot go back in time and see for ourselves what happened, we can try to ground certain ideas with things we know to be facts (premises) now. Things like:

1. All life comes from previous life

2. All information comes from a mind

3. All books have authors

Etc.

A Transcendent God conclusion doesn't contradict the premises I listed above.

An evolutionary origin does violate them since there are no examples that could falsify the above premises listed.

Neither conclusion can be proved empirically, but that is not the point. The point is; which conclusion best harmonizes with known facts? Of course, if one or more of my premises are not true, then there might be a basis for a different conclusion. But short of that, a Transcendent God is a better conclusion.

Concerning the discussion about the rib account: The account doesn't address genetics at all. So, to suggest that a lack of discussion in the account about genetics is a basis for diminishment of the veracity of the action is a non-sequitur. The conclusion doesn't follow the premise since there are no genetic reconfigurations (other than male/female) going on in a special creation scenario.

The question I addressed was regarding whether or not cloning was a necessary outcome of Eve being from Adam. My answer was that XX from XY did not require ANY additional genetic information. All that was needed was the XX version of XY... a subset multiple of XY

Yet, Eve was not a clone because she was genetically different - the female version of Adam. If God included all possible variations that he wanted in the genome of Adam, then why should Eve receive less (or more)?

There are all sorts of genetic re-configurations possible using any number of segments of DNA that go into action once the process is started with conception. Some traits even skip a generation or two. But that is not the issue with special creation of the original pair which is assumed in the Creation model.

I find it interesting that the rib bone is a rich source of hematopoietic bone marrow containing multipotent, pluripotent, and unipotent stem cells. Ribs are used all the time in modern bone-graft surgeries, especially facial reconstruction, because unlike other bones, if removed properly, ribs grow back to a large extent if not totally.

If you or I were facing one of these kinds of facial reconstruction surgeries with bone removed from our rib, I doubt that a discussion about genetics would even occur with the doctor. They simply are not related.

Another interesting quote:

Michael Egnor Professor of Neurosurgery at Stony Brook:

- "I never use evolutionary biology in my work. Would I be a better surgeon if I assumed that the brain arose by random events? Of course not. Doctors are detectives. We look for patterns, and in the human body, patterns look very much like they were designed. Doctors know that, from the intricate structure of the human brain to the genetic code, our bodies show astonishing evidence of design.

That’s why most doctors -- nearly two-thirds according to national polls -- don’t believe that human beings arose merely by chance and natural selection. Most doctors don’t accept evolutionary biology as an adequate explanation for life. Doctors see, first-hand, the design of life." (Evolution News & Views: March 2007) -

Regarding the conclusion that all embryos are female, I found this:

Mammals don’t start as females, they start as a blank slate with XX/XY genetic code, and for the first 5-6 weeks of gestation only the X gene expresses. Then when the Y gene starts expressing (in genetic XY-males), it releases androgens like testosterone, represses some X gene expression (and estrogen development), and expresses specific Y genes. This process is called sexual differentiation and it leads to what we call male and female.[1][2][3][4][5]

... the idea that “all mammals start as females” or specifically “all humans start as females” is not technically correct. It is more accurate to say, “until the sex-determination process begins, a developing human (technically an embryo) has no anatomic or hormonal sex (just XX or XY genetic code)

It is more accurate to say, “until the sex-determination process begins, a developing human (technically an embryo) has no anatomic or hormonal sex (just XX or XY genetic code)

In other words, at the moment of conception, the new life is genetically male or female. What the X gene is expressing in the first few weeks is neither male or female. Before the 5-6 week mark, all embryos have undifferentiated structures that will become internal and external sex organs. The suggestion that after the cell divides into two that it is "female" because no male sex organ is observable is a simplistic, clumsy and unnecessary characterization in my opinion.

61

Simple introduction to the theory of evolution

by Diogenesister in

forum
links

hi new folks, lurkers and trolls.

i thought i would post this simple but interesting video which shows how scientists bring multiple lines of evidence together to prove evolution is true; for example:.

comparative anatomy.

Perry

But if not cloning then it's weird that God used genetic material from Adam, rearranged some of his DNA and got rid of the Y chromosomes to form Eve.

Why is that weird? Engineers do that sort of thing all the time. They take a successful design and use deletion (and obviously other things too) and duplication to create variations.