Posts by deegee

21

The WatchTower conductor lied on stage

by Isambard Crater in

on sunday morning in the watchtower study, a "study" who was their for the 1st time put his hand up and said; "i have a question.

when the paragraph says give up everything, it doesn't really mean give up everything like the pearl merchant, does it, like be willing to lose my modest house, cheap car and other basics i own?

i mean, that sounds a bit much".. the watchtower conductor said in response; "no, it's just a parable and it doesn't mean give up everything.

deegee

Wasn’t Jesus the one who told the parable of the pearl of great price?

What Jesus meant by this parable is evident by the way he and his disciples lived their lives – THEY GAVE UP EVERYTHING:

Matthew 6:19-21, 25-34; 7:21; 13:44-46; 19:21-30

Mark 8:36-37; 10: 13-25, 28 - 30

Luke 6:24-25; 9:23-24, 59 – 62; 12:22-34; 14:33; 18:28

Who wants to be poor like Jesus?

Apparently the WT study conductor is realizing that this is not sensible.

Christianity, like every other religion, is only popular to the point where it gives something to the adherents. When it asks something that seems unreasonable, then common survival sense kicks in. If Christians were to embrace the full message of Jesus they would have no money or a career, they would be sworn to poverty.

This message has not, for the most part, been overwhelmingly popular among people who call themselves Jesus’ followers. Christian denominations have instead opted to pick and choose from among the surviving words of Jesus, selecting the elements of his message that they find to be personally palatable.

The majority of believers are following the party line of their particular church and if it doesn’t suit them, they change churches. Each church leader has to not only attract new customers but also hang on to the ones s/he already has – tread cautiously less they walk away seems to be the policy.

There are no real Christians except for nuns, monks (and the Shakers), when it comes to these radical sayings of Jesus. No wonder people like Joel Osteen have become so popular:

10

“For God so love the world …

by deegee in

... that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not be destroyed but have everlasting life” (john 3:16).. it just occurred to me that if parents were to follow this scripture, they would put their children to death if their children don’t obey/agree with them.

.

deegee

Simon,

?????

So which examples of God are we supposed to follow?

I thought we were supposed to imitate God/Jesus?

10

“For God so love the world …

by deegee in

... that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not be destroyed but have everlasting life” (john 3:16).. it just occurred to me that if parents were to follow this scripture, they would put their children to death if their children don’t obey/agree with them.

.

deegee

... that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not be destroyed but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

It just occurred to me that if parents were to follow this scripture, they would put their children to death if their children don’t obey/agree with them.

3

Drugs, prayer & altered states of consciousness

by deegee in

have you got your "fix" yet?.

hallucinogens are known to induce altered states of consciousness..........but so can prayer:.

acts 10:9-23: "on the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.

deegee

Have you got your "fix" yet?

Hallucinogens are known to induce altered states of consciousness..........but so can prayer:

Acts 10:9-23:
"On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour TO PRAY. But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, HE FELL INTO A TRANCE; and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!" But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean." Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."

This happened three times, and immediately the object was taken up into the sky. Now while Peter was greatly perplexed in mind as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who had been sent by Cornelius, having asked directions for Simon's house, appeared at the gate; and calling out, they were asking whether Simon, who was also called Peter, was staying there. While Peter was reflecting on the vision, The spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are looking for you. "But get up, go downstairs and accompany them without misgivings, for I have sent them Myself."

Acts 11:4-18:
"But Peter began speaking and proceeded to explain to them in orderly sequence, saying, "I was in the City of Joppa PRAYING; and IN A TRANCE I saw a vision, an object coming down like a great sheet lowered by four corners from the sky; and it came right down to me, and when I had fixed my gaze on it and was observing it I saw the four-footed animals of the earth and the wild beasts and the crawling creatures and the birds of the air.
"I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.' "But I said, 'By no means, Lord, for nothing unholy or unclean has ever entered my mouth.' "But a voice from heaven answered a second time, 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.' "This happened three times, and everything was drawn back up into the sky. "And behold, at that moment three men appeared at the house in which we were staying, having been sent to me from Caesarea. "The spirit told me to go with them without misgivings.

Acts 22:17-21:
“It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was PRAYING at the temple, I FELL INTO A TRANCE and saw the Lord speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ he said.‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about me.’

Ain't nothing like a "fix" of prayer!

No wonder the Bible insists that we should "pray without ceasing" (1 Thessalonians 5:17)!

19

Marry only in the Lord

by Jules Saturn in

the second half of 1 corinthians 7:39 reads "...she is free to be married to whomever she wants, only in the lord.".

so we all know that scripture for being doctrine for witnesses when they select a marriage mate and how they are strictly encouraged to marry amongst themselves and look down upon or marked if they marry an outsider.

i have a friend who met a worldly man and when it came to light, her father gave her the option to end the relationship or to marry him, and she chose the latter.

deegee

steve2,

Thanks for filling in the missing information. The Bible is certainly best understood in the time during which and for which it was written. It is certainly possible that only one mate converted back in the day. One point to the apologists.

19

Marry only in the Lord

by Jules Saturn in

the second half of 1 corinthians 7:39 reads "...she is free to be married to whomever she wants, only in the lord.".

so we all know that scripture for being doctrine for witnesses when they select a marriage mate and how they are strictly encouraged to marry amongst themselves and look down upon or marked if they marry an outsider.

i have a friend who met a worldly man and when it came to light, her father gave her the option to end the relationship or to marry him, and she chose the latter.

deegee

It seems the high-control/cultish denominations strictly require that their members marry only each other – Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) would be another non-JW example. I do not know, however, if SDAs actually penalize their members just like the JWs, if they do not obey this scripture.

Other denominations interpret “marry only in the Lord” to mean their members can marry ANYONE who is a Christian regardless of denomination. They may only caution their members about the scripture if the member is marrying a non-Christian, but do not see it as a strict requirement or with penalties attached.

Paul however, seems to be contradicting himself:

1 Corinthians 7:12-14:

"If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

This scripture indicates that a believer can marry an unbeliever. If I am not mistaken, the WT interpretation is that both spouses were non-JWs (unbelievers) at the time of marriage and then one subsequently learnt “the truth”. But nothing is said about that in the passage, this is what they have read into it.

22

Which Bible Translation

by moreconfusedthanever in

i have seen a few comments about the nwt being an altered version of the bible and i must admit that when they released the new one it did not sit right with me.. i want to read the bible but not the nwt.

i also do not want to read one that has the thee and thou and ye etc because that will do my head in.. what translations do you recommend?.

deegee

There is an English translation of the Old Testament called the Tanakh. It should be available from the Jewish Publication Society.

There is also an English translation of the Septuagint according to what I have read.

9

1975 - JWs in other countries, not just the U.S. also knew about the prediction

by deegee in

i have been wondering, if the 1975 prediction was just a rumour started by the rank & file as the wt claims, then how did jws in other countries, a part from the u.s., also come to know about the prediction?.

i started studying with the jws during the 80s when i was a child.

while attending one of my first meetings during that time, a brother commented during the wt study that armageddon did not come in 1975 because it was not known how many years after adam, eve was created.. at the time, i hadn't a clue what the guy was talking about.

deegee

I have been wondering, if the 1975 prediction was just a rumour started by the rank & file as the WT claims, then how did JWs in other countries, a part from the U.S., also come to know about the prediction?

I started studying with the JWs during the 80s when I was a child. While attending one of my first meetings during that time, a brother commented during the WT study that Armageddon did not come in 1975 because it was not known how many years after Adam, Eve was created.

At the time, I hadn't a clue what the guy was talking about. But this took place in Jamaica and in retrospect, it certainly makes me wonder - how did the JWs in Jamaica come up with such an idea?

34

1975 and the burning question/s??

by UnshackleTheChains in

ok. so i'm sitting there at the convention.

the video comes up about 1975 and the fact that the faithful brother in the video maintained his faith in the bible by adhering to the scripture that says:.

'no one knows the day or the hour as to when the lord is coming'.

deegee

I started studying with the JWs during the 80s when I was a child. While attending one of my first meetings during that time, a brother commented during the WT study that Armageddon did not come in 1975 because it was not known how many years after Adam, Eve was created.

At the time, I hadn't a clue what the guy was talking about. But this took place in Jamaica and it certainly makes you wonder how did the JWs in Jamaica came up with such an idea.

32

For Christians: What do you think about an Armagedon and the Afterlife

by John Davis in

i don't mean for anyone to get into argument over this, i just want to hear what people believe.i hope that no one will mock or argue with someone else about their beliefs, i know that i won't in this topic.. i still believe in a christian god, not what jws believe, but believe that there has to be something after this life.

i am not sure about how armageddon would go, would it be like how evangelicals believe with a rapture or timing or anything, though i still believe in a form of armageddon.

i do think that all good people will go to heaven but i don't believe in a hell.

deegee

there are atheists who believe in the possibility of an afterlife from anecdotal evidence of those who have 'come back to tell us'----------Xanthippe

What is this anecdotal evidence?

Who are the those who have 'come back to tell us'?